Philosophy Now Forum

How does the journey of self-realization, God realization and salvation start?

The journey starts with a very simple learning: we are not the body. It starts with a negation of the reality that we are the body. But how does one negate this belief that we are the body? All through life we say that we are this body - but what happens at death? At death we come to know that the body dies and the person in the body moves on, passes on. At least now, when we see a body that’s dying or dead, we should realize that this body is not the person that we knew. This body is only a vehicle of the divine soul, the spirit, the atman. When we realize that we are not this body, it marks the beginning of our journey of realization.

Without realizing that we are not the body, we cannot realize the true self. We are so attached to what we think is the true self and our ego is in complete command of who we think we are that we are unwilling to believe that we are ‘not this, not this’. That is why the first thing we must bring our self to believe is that I am not the body. The body dies, but I don’t die. This is my hand, this is my head, but where am I? What am I? I am not the body. I am something else. I am a power that resides in the body. I am the life power. I am the spirit. I am the energy. I am the breath. I am the life. I am not the body - this starts the realization journey.

AiR

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I like this post.


...and congratulations upon learning how to create paragraphs.





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I've stopped reading AiR's posts because AiR doesn't engage with people who respond, AiR just talks AT people. I only checked in just now to see Bill Wiltrack's response, to see if he is alive and not in the nut house as another thread is claiming. I guess Bill's post can only suggest that he is still alive.

Yeah, the body dies, but I just sort of cease to exist.

No, you do not. You think you do. You would do well to destroy that false idea.

Wherever 'you' 'go' without the body I doubt you'll be 'I' without it.

Re: Gustav
What makes you think that this idea is false?

The best place for that conversation is I think on the Consequences of Atheism thread. You can see my rather long recent addition - if you can bear to read through it! The notion of 'deathlessness' is interesting. It is somewhat complex though.

Pure nonsense and babble! This garbage should be deleted for the common good of all!

AiR wrote:How does the journey of self-realization, God realization and salvation start?

The journey starts with a very simple learning: we are not the body. It starts with a negation of the reality that we are the body. But how does one negate this belief that we are the body? All through life we say that we are this body - but what happens at death? At death we come to know that the body dies and the person in the body moves on, passes on. At least now, when we see a body that’s dying or dead, we should realize that this body is not the person that we knew. This body is only a vehicle of the divine soul, the spirit, the atman. When we realize that we are not this body, it marks the beginning of our journey of realization.

Without realizing that we are not the body, we cannot realize the true self. We are so attached to what we think is the true self and our ego is in complete command of who we think we are that we are unwilling to believe that we are ‘not this, not this’. That is why the first thing we must bring our self to believe is that I am not the body. The body dies, but I don’t die. This is my hand, this is my head, but where am I? What am I? I am not the body. I am something else. I am a power that resides in the body. I am the life power. I am the spirit. I am the energy. I am the breath. I am the life. I am not the body - this starts the realization journey.

AiR

Total BS! Ones journey begins with the conception of a specific egg and sperm. Then one lives, then one dies, end of the journey my friends. Except that the constituents that one borrows so as to live, are released back into the earth so that another can borrow them so as to partake of a similar journey, etc, etc, etc. And in so doing one kinda lives forever, kinda!

AiR wrote:How does the journey of self-realization, God realization and salvation start?

The journey starts with a very simple learning: we are not the body. It starts with a negation of the reality that we are the body. But how does one negate this belief that we are the body? All through life we say that we are this body - but what happens at death? At death we come to know that the body dies and the person in the body moves on, passes on. At least now, when we see a body that’s dying or dead, we should realize that this body is not the person that we knew. This body is only a vehicle of the divine soul, the spirit, the atman. When we realize that we are not this body, it marks the beginning of our journey of realization.

Without realizing that we are not the body, we cannot realize the true self. We are so attached to what we think is the true self and our ego is in complete command of who we think we are that we are unwilling to believe that we are ‘not this, not this’. That is why the first thing we must bring our self to believe is that I am not the body. The body dies, but I don’t die. This is my hand, this is my head, but where am I? What am I? I am not the body. I am something else. I am a power that resides in the body. I am the life power. I am the spirit. I am the energy. I am the breath. I am the life. I am not the body - this starts the realization journey.

AiR

I posted this feedback in another forum. No AiR, no response.

The journey starts with wonder that captures attention, then moves to curiosity to investigate. This is not enough for the journey of realization, though. Not even desire is enough. The intelligence to see clearly comes about by pushing fear aside and not blinking, and this is required. Desire and honesty are also required but they do not insure awakening. Faith, or a belief that there is something more to be known than what you currently know … this ties in and provides a reason, at first. When chunks of ignorance begin to fall away, and who you think you are loses its grip on the motive to act, then the journey becomes more-or-less self-perpetuating. Through detachment, which is distinct from disassociation, one does view the body impartially. Thirst and hunger become incorporated into the ever-unfolding present moment. Resulting physical changes are on par with all other perceived phenomona in that they are incorporated into the fabric of living, without rejection, until a reason to drink that connects with the totality of all presents itself to awareness, and one drinks clean water. In the ensuing realization of drinking, in the starbursts of pleasure that are the body replenishing, one realizes that one is the body, and more. - CH Walker.

“Your body, the society, the forest, and the ways are all in you; you are not in them. You are the body also, but not this body exclusively.” - Sri Ramana Maharshi

Walker wrote:The journey starts with wonder that captures attention, then moves to curiosity to investigate. This is not enough for the journey of realization, though. Not even desire is enough. The intelligence to see clearly comes about by pushing fear aside and not blinking, and this is required. Desire and honesty are also required but they do not insure awakening. Faith, or a belief that there is something more to be known than what you currently know … this ties in and provides a reason, at first. When chunks of ignorance begin to fall away, and who you think you are loses its grip on the motive to act, then the journey becomes more-or-less self-perpetuating. Through detachment, which is distinct from disassociation, one does view the body impartially. Thirst and hunger become incorporated into the ever-unfolding present moment. Resulting physical changes are on par with all other perceived phenomona in that they are incorporated into the fabric of living, without rejection, until a reason to drink that connects with the totality of all presents itself to awareness, and one drinks clean water. In the ensuing realization of drinking, in the starbursts of pleasure that are the body replenishing, one realizes that one is the body, and more.

Wow... wonderful description, Walker!

These words "pushing fear aside and not blinking" describe an ongoing momentum throughout my own life, which has ramped up to such a degree in recent years that I don't even think about it... it's just the current "normal". If I do stop and think about it, the "little me" (or whatever it is) can feel panic... like being on a high wire and telling oneself: "don't look down".

It is interesting to notice the various phases/processes I've passed through over the years... from the innocence and natural connection (of early childhood), to years of seeking definition, then detachment and detangling from too much contrived and limited definition, followed by facing and embracing the void, and now riding a raging cosmic river with eyes and heart open, all while seeming to circle back around to innocence and natural connection again. It's so powerful and beautiful.

I laugh at myself for all of my cursing and expressions of playful (but pointed) insults lately online. Like a teapot letting off the pressure of years of keeping a lid on much too much that was absurd and unreal. It is exhilarating for me to embrace such behavior, as I dramatically ride my dragon and slash my sword of (my own) "truth/clarity" like a wild woman. And yet, STILL continuing to feel so much non-specific and unconditional love that I think I'll freakin' explode at times. I don't understand or need a point for any of it. This mind and body will survive it as long as possible. Simply flowing on ever-expanding pathways of connection is what I feel drawn to do, and that brings along with it: EVERYTHING!

Thank you.

I like your feel for language, and in that vein:

Gazing into void …

Tremendous energy in your writing, likely pent-up, as you allude. Harnessing that energy to proper intent is essental for the balance of the world, and your openness indicates that you know this. Unmindfulness of such power can feed a fearful power, in the sense that anyone can feed from any fear that unleashed power of voice elicits. Men know this in the physical realm, and men who respect power and give power its due, learn to keep voice power under control to feed a fearless power.

Wise-men restrict their shouting to stadiums, and I think that in the balance, wise-women are given more leniency, thus enjoy an added power of voice that men can only dream of, in stadiums, when watching the best at what they do. Wise and powerful women should read Annie Dillard, women's tennis is the best spectator sport.

Lacewing wrote:It is interesting to notice the various phases/processes I've passed through over the years... from the innocence and natural connection (of early childhood), to years of seeking definition, then detachment and detangling from too much contrived and limited definition, followed by facing and embracing the void, and now riding a raging cosmic river with eyes and heart open, all while seeming to circle back around to innocence and natural connection again. It's so powerful and beautiful.

I laugh at myself for all of my cursing and expressions of playful (but pointed) insults lately online. Like a teapot letting off the pressure of years of keeping a lid on much too much that was absurd and unreal. It is exhilarating for me to embrace such behavior, as I dramatically ride my dragon and slash my sword of (my own) "truth/clarity" like a wild woman. And yet, STILL continuing to feel so much non-specific and unconditional love that I think I'll freakin' explode at times. I don't understand or need a point for any of it. This mind and body will survive it as long as possible. Simply flowing on ever-expanding pathways of connection is what I feel drawn to do, and that brings along with it: EVERYTHING!

Shows how far-reaching is the influence of Oprah and 'vagina-mind'!

This is not really philosophy, nor philosophisable thought, or careful thought, and is more the sort of gushy 'confessionalism' which has crept into ideas. Again, very female. I suggest that men should avoid it like the plague. Curiously, the itinerary tends away from definition, and perhaps clarity, and also perhaps power, relevance and focus, to nebulousness and disconnect from solidities. I have the sense it must be a safer area to hang out in since it requires no definitions. It is preparation for a leap into 'the void' (whatever the fuck that is).

• Natural connection of childhood
• Work of seeking to define, perhaps categorise
• Then a break away from the former
• To an 'embrace' of some sort of 'void'.

What in fact is being described here? By the very nature of nebulousness, I reckon, one will never get an answer since, one divines, the 'void' is not so much an answer but a cosmic amoeba-like entity that absorbs one into its 'unconditional love'.

Additionally, the 'cursing' is made to sound like some sort of joke, as if it had no consequence. But then when faced with the Cosmic Void I would imagine that all human sentiments fall away. Does it offer some sort of trance-state? It reminds me of Close Encounters of the Third Kind. I expect glowing aliens to appear and for some level of communication beyond *mere* human language to take place.

Simply flowing on ever-expanding pathways of connection is what I feel drawn to do, and that brings along with it: EVERYTHING!

No offence intended (this is a forum for discussing philosophy and ideas however) but it could also bring along NOTHING, or all the unordered clutter of the Universe. Or it could represent a sort of little girl's continued rebellion against the necessity of definitions, or a strong structure of ideas, and much else that depends on focus, not the seeking (or imitation) of nebulousness. These sort of ideas - represented as momentous, 'transformative', and potent - have infected us at an emotional level. It is part of a cultural movement of dubious value. Yet they end in emptiness, or perhaps valuelessness is the way to say it. They do not seem to lead to power or strength.

Some might be attracted to this 'philosophy', or this praxis (or what is it?). I wonder what really stands behind it, I mean: the predicates. All ideas have origins, and all ideas have consequences. What is the origin of these? And the consequences ...

Gustav Bjornstrand wrote:It is preparation for a leap into 'the void' (whatever the fuck that is).

The void is what you perceive when you lose something
It's enough to make children cry
Then they grow up and lose everything
To find the void
And everything