Philosophy Now Forum

I struggle with depression and I have this philosophical question that I need an answer for. Actually, it might even be a scientific question.

Now I need to know the answer to this very vital question. I am thinking that there is only one way love, joy, happiness, and inspiration can be experienced. That being, through our reward system (our good moods). The more our reward system is functional and healthy, the more of those things we will have in our lives since our good moods would be greater. But like I said before, there is the difference between words and phrases and our mental states.

So by depressed people focusing on words and phrases alone of love, joy, happiness, and inspiration, they are only fooling themselves into thinking they are in love, joyful, happy, and inspired while depressed when they never were since depression as well as anhedonia are what turn off our reward system (our good moods). Even if they focused on the mental state of their thinking while depressed and told themselves that this is a form of love, joy, happiness, and inspiration, then they would be fooling themselves here as well since they are not in the actual mental state of having those things.

So they would be fooling themselves through this whole world of personally creating our own meanings in life and personally defining them for ourselves which would have to be false since there is only one way to experience those said things I've mentioned. There is only one way to experience the mental state of visualizing objects (sight) and perceiving sound (hearing). If you were to become blind and deaf, then your thoughts alone cannot give you that mental state.

If a blind and deaf person thought to his/herself that he/she still has sight and hearing, then that would not give him/her sight and hearing. That would only give him/her nothing more than the labels (words and phrases) of sight and hearing.

So there is only one function that gives us our mental states of visualizing objects and perceiving sound just as how there is also only one way to experience touch, smell, taste, etc. So in that same sense, there is also only one way to have good meaning, love, joy, happiness, and inspiration. There is only one function of our brains that can give us that. There is only one mental state that can give us those things. That being, the mental state of our good moods as I've said before.

If you are going to say something to me such as that we can have good meaning, love, joy, happiness, and inspiration through our way of thinking alone even while depressed and not in a good mood, then you have to prove to me how this is the actual mental state of having those things and not just the words and phrases of those things.

My question is, is my theory right or wrong? If it is wrong, then you are going to have to prove it wrong. You cannot just say that we can have those things in our lives while depressed. You have to do what the last paragraph above says. You have to prove to me how that is the actual mental state of perceiving those things.

In case I ever have to live my life depressed, then it is vital I find the answer. I am thinking that having good meaning in one's life is not just simply from knowing things. It is being in the mental state of love, joy, happiness, and inspiration in doing those things. For example, if you were not in any mental state of love, joy, happiness, or inspiration at all and were in a completely blank hopeless state and you just knew to yourself deep down that you have to go and save your family's life since they have good meaning to you, then they would not have any good meaning to you at all. You are telling yourself nothing more than just words and phrases of good meaning. The only way you can actually perceive them as having good meaning to you would be if you were in an inspired, happy, loving, and joyful mental state in saving their lives.

So, in short, since you were not in a good mood while saving their lives, then your family would actually have no good meaning to you in that given moment when you were depressed and in a blank mental state. For you to live your life just through knowing things while depressed and just thinking that has good meaning to you, that is living your life as an utterly inferior dead lifeless biological machine. It is our good moods that make us and our lives something. It is only our good moods that can give good meaning to our lives from our friends, family, and our goals/dreams. Therefore, even all the famous genius artists and composers who struggled with depression were nothing great. They and their lives were nothing great. Their works of art cannot mean anything to them during their depression and nor can the idea that they helped/inspired others all around the world and made their lives good. Nor can their own works of art mean anything good to them either.

MozartLink wrote:I struggle with depression.

Depression puts s dull grey colour over everything. You might be on the right track. Love is not a thing you can experience. You can have experiences and you can feel things. And that state of feeling can be described as "love" and all the other things you mention. But there is no love "in the world". You can't go out and grab some. You have to build that inside.

No answer will be sufficient unless you conquer it.

Overcoming this state can be achieved in various ways. But the only permanent way to to address your life-style.
Describe your average day!

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I have found that the simple act of physical motion & being mentally and emotionally engaged in something takes me out of depression automatically.

On the flip side I believe depression is useful and a vital tool for insight & empathy.




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My question is, is my theory right or wrong? If it is wrong, then you are going to have to prove it wrong. You cannot just say that we can have those things in our lives while depressed. You have to do what the last paragraph above says. You have to prove to me how that is the actual mental state of perceiving those things.

Is your point that depression is the result of words taking the place of feelings? I agree! I would even paraphrase Jesus," what would it profit a person to gain all the world's symbols and lose reality."
I think that in modern society symbols have replaced reality ($ etc) and that is why modern society is so neurotic.

The word "food" cannot nourish you, nor can the word "water" quench your thirst.

In case I ever have to live my life depressed, then it is vital I find the answer. I am thinking that having good meaning in one's life is not just simply from knowing things. It is being in the mental state of love, joy, happiness, and inspiration in doing those things. For example, if you were not in any mental state of love, joy, happiness, or inspiration at all and were in a completely blank hopeless state and you just knew to yourself deep down that you have to go and save your family's life since they have good meaning to you, then they would not have any good meaning to you at all. You are telling yourself nothing more than just words and phrases of good meaning. The only way you can actually perceive them as having good meaning to you would be if you were in an inspired, happy, loving, and joyful mental state in saving their lives.

So, in short, since you were not in a good mood while saving their lives, then your family would actually have no good meaning to you in that given moment when you were depressed and in a blank mental state. For you to live your life just through knowing things while depressed and just thinking that has good meaning to you, that is living your life as an utterly inferior dead lifeless biological machine. It is our good moods that make us and our lives something. It is only our good moods that can give good meaning to our lives from our friends, family, and our goals/dreams. Therefore, even all the famous genius artists and composers who struggled with depression were nothing great. They and their lives were nothing great. Their works of art cannot mean anything to them during their depression and nor can the idea that they helped/inspired others all around the world and made their lives good. Nor can their own works of art mean anything good to them either.

Some people would call depressed people such as myself selfish for that. First off, that is false. That is the mental health stigma we all see today against depressed people. Second, it is not their fault. I am not allowed to perceive any good meaning in my life as long as I am depressed. It is no different than how a blind and deaf person is not allowed to see and hear. It is not their fault. So for anyone cruel/demeaning to call me selfish because my good moods are the only things that can allow me to perceive good meaning towards things would be no different than saying that a blind and deaf person is selfish since he/she cannot see and hear.

raw_thought wrote:Is your point that depression is the result of words taking the place of feelings? I agree! I would even paraphrase Jesus," what would it profit a person to gain all the world's symbols and lose reality."
I think that in modern society symbols have replaced reality ($ etc) and that is why modern society is so neurotic.

No I am not saying that depression "IS" the result of words taking the place of feelings.
I AM saying that you cannot look for those things which those words describe. Feelings are wholly subject to your physicality. The mind, brain, body are words used to describe an integrated entity that has feelings. Words can only ever approximate.
You need to act, to live, and to feel. Depression can be the result of inactivity, or the activity which leads to a disjuncture between your expectations of life and the life you find yourself living.

That is why I asked Mozartlink to describe his average day.

I think you are confused. My post was a response to the OP. Also, you did not ask me about my day. Perhaps you meant. Mozartlink.

So you are saying that the words "love" "joy" "pain" are meaningless?

raw_thought wrote:So you are saying that the words "love" "joy" "pain" are meaningless?

I'll presume that this was directed to me.

no. I am saying people misconceive "meaning."

"joy is not a thing in itself, it is only a descriptor.

raw_thought wrote:I think you are confused. My post was a response to the OP. Also, you did not ask me about my day. Perhaps you meant. Mozartlink.

True.

There is only one thing as bad as answering the wrong person- and that is to not use the Quote function at all.

How very anal of you!
I suppose you will criticize some of my misspellings next. * Also, most people know the difference between a signifier and a signified. Please explain how that contradicts my post.
I think that as usual you want to start a fight where there is none. At least I think we are in agreement (that words are no substitute for feelings). But unfortunately, you are very hard to follow.
* As I have said MANY time I am using a tablet. But even if I was not using a tablet, to obsess about the quote function is petty.

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

raw_thought wrote:So you are saying that the words "love" "joy" "pain" are meaningless?

I'll presume that this was directed to me.

no. I am saying people misconceive "meaning."

"joy is not a thing in itself, it is only a descriptor.

Yes.and your point is?
As I said a few posts back, the word "food" provides no nourishment and the word "water" will not quench your thirst.

Oh I get it! We are back to the qualia debate.
You are saying that we. do not feel (qualia) anything. The only thing that exists are brain states. Pain does not hurt. It is (and only is) C fibers firing. I disagree! Pain hurts! When I say I am in pain I am not referring to my C fibers! I am referring to the feeling (qualia). I am referring to the fact that it hurts!