Philosophy Now Forum

.





....................................................




We, as the human race, have outgrown religion.


As Julian Jaynes wrote about our view of modern religion, - Now even the writings are meaningless.





.

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.





....................................................



We, as the human race, have outgrown religion.
As Julian Jaynes wrote about our view of modern religion, - Now even the writings are meaningless.

.

Subtitles for the truth.

Bill: "The Pope picks his nose. Therefore we have outgrown religion. TO prove it I have linked a book that Is not relevant, and whose content I do not understand."

Bill: "On the plus side my posts reflect my brain: full of space, big letter, and pretty pictures."

.



The book by Julian Jaynes is extremely significant to this thread in it's description of how we, as modern global citizens, relate to the subject of religion.


I didn't realize the Pope was picking his nose when I first used this gif. It's nice that you focused upon this fact but insignificant in relation to the general thrust of this thread.





.

Now the two major and three non major Abrahamics account for a figure as high as eighty per cent
of the worlds population. Any notion that religion is disappearing is just total nonsense. As it is not
going any where. Although here in Europe we are slowly becoming more secular religion has a very
powerful hold in other continents especially in Africa and Asia. And so while we cannot eradicate it
we can still deny it privilege and so keep its entitlement in check. However in a truly global secular
society it would be openly and freely accepted. Just as much as non belief which is how it should be
And by the way Bill the Pope presides over a billion Catholics worldwide so he is not exactly the best
person to reference the end of religion. Actually you could not have picked a worst figure if you tried

.


Dave Stevens


Dave Stevens, Atheist, Social Democrat, Navy Veteran & Freelance Filmmaker


Is religion declining?

Yes, religion is in decline.

The rise of the internet and the increased freedom of information it offers has been a major coffin nail for religious society; because more and more people can plainly see the facts and it is next-to-impossible for people (especially impressionable children) to be effectively isolated from sources of information.

As to how long it will take: it is unlikely that religion will ever be totally eradicated. We've known beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Earth is round for over five centuries; but there are still a prominent group of nuts who insist that it's flat.

Probably within the next 100 years, we will see an end to religious dominance of world affairs and perhaps an end of dominance in most worldwide domestic affairs.







By Brian Magee

Two recent studies released almost simultaneously provide more hard evidence that religion is slowly losing its grip on humanity, even in the United States.


First, a report from the University of Chicago called “Belief About God Across Time and Countries” looked at survey data from 30 countries, reaching as far back as 1991. While many of the news stories about this report focused on figures showing a tendency for numbers of religious believers to increase with age, the figures also showed the overall percentage of religious believers declined in most countries, showing an increase in only three:

“…the % saying they were atheists increased in 15 of 18 countries from 1991 to 2008 with an average increase of 1.7 percentage points. For 1998 to 2008, atheists grew in 23 of 30 countries for an average gain of 2.3 points. Conversely … certain belief in God declined in 14 of 18 countries from 1991 to 2008 with an average decrease of 2.4 points and from 1998 to 2008 loses occurred in 24 of 30 countries for a similar average decline of 2.4 points. Likewise … never believing in God rose in 14 of 17 countries from 1991 to 2008 for an average increase of 1.6 points and increased in 20 of 29 countries from 1998 to 2008 by an average gain of 2.2 points.”

Second, a study called “The State of the Bible 2012” done by the Barna Group for the American Bible Society found that Americans are losing interest in the Bible. In just one year, the number of people who said they read the Bible to be “closer to God” dropped 9 percentage points from 64% in 2011 to 55% in 2012. Results show a drop from 75% to 69% of people who said “the Bible contains everything a person needs to know to live a meaningful life.” Those people who agreed that the Bible has “too much influence” in U.S. society increased from 13% to 16%, while those who thought the Bible had “too little influence” dropped from 54% to 47%.


While these figures are only for the span of a single year, the changes indicated are not small for such a short period of time. Additional surveys will need to be done to show a permanent trend, but other recent studies have given us similar results. For example, the ongoing State of the States survey by Gallup found in 2011 that 40% of Americans are “very religious,” down from 65% in 2008. And new research on the Millennials—those between the ages of 18 and 29—show a 20 percent decline from those who were raised Christians and now no longer consider themselves such.

What’s happening here? Because results of surveys like these show a great deal of variation based on age and geography, reasons to explain overall trends will be varied. But the results raise some interesting possibilities to consider, including something as simple as bad behavior, hypocrisy, and outlandish assertions on the part of those who claim most publicly and proudly to be religious believers. The areas that those who claim to be religious fail to shine include child abuse scandals, open LGBT discrimination and support for bullying, attacks on women’s rights, support for war, pushing for religion in science classrooms, prayer-led public meetings, denying the separation of church and state, withholding medical care in favor of prayer for children … and the list goes on.

Religious-based bad behavior is not limited to the U.S., of course. We’ve been witnessing a worldwide phenomenon of bad behavior coming from adherents of all of the world’s major religions. from death for blasphemy to claims of seeing religious figures in everyday objects only ads to a growing worldwide skepticism about religion as a valid framework for humanity to consider. Cases of bad political and criminal behavior from people who are aligned with those in religious groups are also part of the mix that drives people away from religion. The recent rants of Ted Nugent and mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik are prominent examples.

One thing’s for sure: humanists are poised to reach out to the growing number of “nones” and show humanism as the reason-based alternative to traditional religion. It’s an opportunity that all of us working for the freethought movement can’t afford to miss.

Brian Magee is the communications associate for the American Humanist Association.




.

Is this what counts as an intelligent thread on here, one showing the Pope apparently picking his nose? Wow Bill, you must have put a shit-load of thought into this.

.


You're cherry pickin.


The point of this thread is that we as a progressive humanity have moved beyond the authority of an irrational, non-logical belief.

We are moving towards a trust in logic and rationality. Whether this is correct or not remains to be seen but in the mean time we are, as a human race, moving away from religion. Away from belief in gods or the words that we have been left by the witnesses of those gods...


It seems as if everyone here is focused upon the action of Pope Francis within the gif I provided. That only further supports my initial claim; We are ALL the same.





......................................................






.

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.


You're cherry pickin.


The point of this thread is that we as a progressive humanity have moved beyond the authority of an irrational, non-logical belief.

We are moving towards a trust in logic and rationality. Whether this is correct or not remains to be seen but in the mean time we are, as a human race, moving away from religion. Away from belief in gods or the words that we have been left by the witnesses of those gods...


It seems as if everyone here is focused upon the action of Pope Francis within the gif I provided. That only further supports my initial claim; We are ALL the same.





......................................................






.

Umm no. The point of the thread is a chance for you to show a man picking his nose and eating it.

Bill. Will you for fuck's sake stop posting your inane and infantile images. They're a gigantic turn-off for anybody who might otherwise be interested in what you have to say and an insult to the intelligence of the members of this forum.

Religion is dead and won't see the 21st century out and thank Christ for that, say I. Already in my country it is almost universally regarded as a quaint historical curiosity and the internet will kill it stone dead. Good fucking riddance.

What we're currently witnessing in the worldwide rise of extreme fundamentalism is the last gasp of a dying ideology where the panic-stricken theists are retreating behind the barricades because they know bloody well their doom is nigh. Many flowering shrubs do exactly the same thing. If you see a shrub in your garden flowering more profusely than it ever has before you should consider heading down to your garden centre for a replacement. In all likelihood the bloody thing will be dead next year. It's nature's way.

Bill Wiltrack wrote:.
The book by Julian Jaynes is extremely significant to this thread in it's description of how we, as modern global citizens, relate to the subject of religion.
I didn't realize the Pope was picking his nose when I first used this gif. It's nice that you focused upon this fact but insignificant in relation to the general thrust of this thread.


.

We had this our before. You did not understand Jaynes concepts then and I doubt you do now.

Let's imagine you read the book this time.
Please summarise what you understand by his idea in relation to this thread.

As for the Pope picking his nose not relating to the general thrust of the thread - you don't have a thrust, let alone a general one.

LOL, is that a picture of the pope picking his nose? Hilarious. I don't think it would be such a bad thing if religion did end though. Kinda wish it did, I mean, most wars are fought over religion it seems.

.






Love, love, LOVE Julian Jaynes.


Like a piece of fine art I will NEVER be so bold as to think I understand even a 1/100 of the meaning The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind that the artist; Julian Jaynes intended.


I do have my understanding of that piece of art though.


Years ago I started a thread about the writings of Julian Jaynes. Wish I could access that thread & the line of thought that I used.

However, for now, I will give the Ciff Notes version of what I can remember.



For the past 4,000 years mankind has experienced a most dramatic inner & outer change of how we relate to spiritual & religious topics.




2,000 – 1,000 BC – Man talked directly to the gods he knew on a personal basis.

1,000 – 0 years BC – The gods retreated to the heavens & spoke less to fewer & fewer people.

0 – 1,000 AD – The gods stopped talking altogether and all we had left is their writings.

1,000 – 2,000 AD – Even those writing became meaningless.







.........................................................




Jaynes, rightfully so, attributes these outer changes to the inner changes that are happening between the relationship of our left brain and our right brain activity.


I love this book. One of the few books that I ever read. Read it many times over. Highlighted it. Perused the highlights en-Toto until I lost the dog-eared copy...Then bought another one.









.

So that's it is it Bill? That's what you got out of Jaynes? As you were, mate, I take back what I said about the infantile images. You just do whatever you reckon's a fair thing.

.




..........................................................Apology accepted.




,