Philosophy Now Forum

Recently, Amazon, for some unknown reason, recommended that I read Sins of the Tongue: The Backbiting Tongue by Father Belet of the Diocese of Basil.

Since the price ($.99 + sales tax ) was reasonable and I was only dimly aware of what bickbiting was, I bought the book.

During my read, I had our annual breakfast in Saint Paul with Ed and Brad, my two buddies from high school. Ed, a former airline pilot, comes from California to meet with his physician/buddy. Brad drives to St. Paul from Two Harbors.

Anyway, at a certain point in our breakfast, I related to them that my ex-wife had recently made a false accusation against me relative to our daughter. They made no response! Then one of them quickly changed the subject! I immediately felt guilty. I believe that they found my anger to be offensive and they sensed that my statement constituted a moral offense (although they could not explicily identify it as backbiting).

According to the teaching of the book, my statement was backbiting, a moral offense against my ex-wife and against my two friends.

I suspect that as I age I should carefully watch my tongue and choose silence frequently.
http://www.amazon.com/Sins-Tongue-Backb ... ther+belet

Rule of thumb: if you can't or won't say it to the person in question, you probably shouldn't be sayin' it behind his or her back.

Also: most folks have a low tolerance for the kvetchin' of others (no matter how justified that kvetchin' may be), especially when they can't offer a solution to the problem on the table (mebbe your friends weren't offended but simply felt helpless).

My dictionary defines backbiting as 'malicious talk about someone who is not present.' The way you descibe it does not sound malicious, so I assume the author has defined it in another way. You might be interested to know that the Buddha is in full agreement with this author, that it shouldn't be done. Although, in my opinion, he saw it, not as a moral issue, but as a practical issue.

Malicious speach, false speach, harsh speach, idle-chatter. These are all detrimental.

Tom....none of us are perfect. Don't beat yourself up, you're a good guy and I suspect your friends know this and probably understood your needING to vent once and a while. It's not like you do it consistently or maliciously. Good friends understand such things.

Why are you feeling guilty, tbieter? Your ex brought false witness against you. You have a right to say. If they're friends, they'll understand it's weighing on your mind.

Yes, to me, the most interesting thing is that it is seen as immoral to your friends. I consider it expected that it might be considered immoral towards your ex-wife. Wrongfully or rightfully accused, it could be said that it is the business of you and your ex-wife, and as such should stay betweem you and her. I suppose it could be seen as burdening your friends. But that might be what friend are for. The only way I could see this being mistaken for sure, ethically or practically, is if it involved maliciousness. I don't see that being the case. So we might need a short explanation of what the book says.

tbieter wrote:Recently, Amazon, for some unknown reason, recommended that I read Sins of the Tongue: The Backbiting Tongue by Father Belet of the Diocese of Basil.

Since the price ($.99 + sales tax ) was reasonable and I was only dimly aware of what bickbiting was, I bought the book.

During my read, I had our annual breakfast in Saint Paul with Ed and Brad, my two buddies from high school. Ed, a former airline pilot, comes from California to meet with his physician/buddy. Brad drives to St. Paul from Two Harbors.

Anyway, at a certain point in our breakfast, I related to them that my ex-wife had recently made a false accusation against me relative to our daughter. They made no response! Then one of them quickly changed the subject! I immediately felt guilty. I believe that they found my anger to be offensive and they sensed that my statement constituted a moral offense (although they could not explicily identify it as backbiting).

According to the teaching of the book, my statement was backbiting, a moral offense against my ex-wife and against my two friends.

I suspect that as I age I should carefully watch my tongue and choose silence frequently.
http://www.amazon.com/Sins-Tongue-Backb ... ther+belet

You're trapped either way. Your own concern to raise what you're ex-wife accused you of indicates that she and/or your daughter was "backbiting" if the accusation was't true. However, as soon as you begin to defend yourself, your own frustration for such potential false accusation will only aid others into thinking that you are trying to deflect others from trusting the rumor. If they believe the accusation, they'll perceive you as "backbiting" in kind and will often default to silence. While uncertain, you can't determine for sure that you're friends are with you or not. It only makes you more frustrated and is reflected in how you respond with even more emotion.

But then this emotional reflection of your frustration also will be interpreted even by friends as indicating potential guilt of what you are accused of. It is a lose-lose situation and demonstrates how no matter who initiates the 'backbiting', it dooms the ones being accused without fairness. It is why in laws in most countries they have adapted to what began in the U.S. as "Miranda rights". These are the rights of requiring the police to inform you of some offense you are being accused of and your right to remain silent. Unfortunately, these laws don't apply in non-legal social conditions.

You're best and maybe only course of action is to charge your wife with slander. If you are sincere to not doing anything wrong, but still find it necessary to be a part of your daughter's life sincerely, you'd have to do whatever is necessary to repair the damage OR opt to walk away. You may not actually be able to afford to put forth the cost of this. Also, while you may be able to be justified in the end, it may only create another further alternate accusation against you instead. In this case, you are still doomed and have to at least trust that you cannot do anything about it. Continuing to be concerned will only harm you more for the investment. Just KNOW that you are not alone in this type of abuse. You have to then separate yourself from these people completely and try to attend to those things that you CAN deal with instead. You still lose as you're integrity regardless. So you have to avoid them with absolution and hope that those you do participate with will see who you really are by example.

Good luck.