Philosophy Now Forum

Optimists believe we live in the best of worlds while pessimists fear this is so.

PhilX

Philosophy Explorer wrote:Optimists believe we live in the best of worlds while pessimists fear this is so.

PhilX

Optimism and pessimism are both biases, as I've stated repeatedly. And if you think this is the best of worlds, I happily leave it to you and your descendants, with great relief. Fuck, I'd pay you to take it. Happily, I don't have to.

I think that people with a split personality can hold both viewpoints.

PhilX

Philosophy Explorer wrote:I think that people with a split personality can hold both viewpoints.

PhilX

Perhaps. I don't have experience with split personality. It's quite rare compared to other mental health issues.

Philosophy Explorer wrote:Optimists believe we live in the best of worlds while pessimists fear this is so.

PhilX

What about realism? I find that my own realistic approach necessarily makes optimists think me as being negative regardless. And if I then try to prove the distinction, I continue to lose. Pessimism, on the other hand, is less likely a function to disrespect because often their real failures give them justice to believe it while it is still natural for us to prefer the positive for ourselves. While 'positive' or 'negative' personalities are due to how well their environment treats them, we still prefer the 'positive' as we internalize those things we like. So it is hard to believe that anyone actually proposes being pessimistic unless they actually find pleasure in how it harms others sadistically.

Dalek Prime wrote:

Philosophy Explorer wrote:I think that people with a split personality can hold both viewpoints.

PhilX

Perhaps. I don't have experience with split personality. It's quite rare compared to other mental health issues.

You're correct. However it's common on a much higher ratio with those that do drugs and drinking which I can personally testify to.

PhilX

Scott Mayers wrote:

Philosophy Explorer wrote:Optimists believe we live in the best of worlds while pessimists fear this is so.

PhilX

What about realism? I find that my own realistic approach necessarily makes optimists think me as being negative regardless. And if I then try to prove the distinction, I continue to lose. Pessimism, on the other hand, is less likely a function to disrespect because often their real failures give them justice to believe it while it is still natural for us to prefer the positive for ourselves. While 'positive' or 'negative' personalities are due to how well their environment treats them, we still prefer the 'positive' as we internalize those things we like. So it is hard to believe that anyone actually proposes being pessimistic unless they actually find pleasure in how it harms others sadistically.

Pessimism is realism. But that's my bias. And if you understood philanthropic antinatalism, you'd know cessation of suffering is our main concern. Hardly sadistic.

Btw, pessimist is the world's label for me. I use it only as a communicative convenience. Few would purposefully label themselves with what the world considers an epithet.

Philosophy Explorer wrote:

Dalek Prime wrote:

Philosophy Explorer wrote:I think that people with a split personality can hold both viewpoints.

PhilX

Perhaps. I don't have experience with split personality. It's quite rare compared to other mental health issues.

You're correct. However it's common on a much higher ratio with those that do drugs and drinking which I can personally testify to.

PhilX

It may seem that way, but only because of the drugs. It's not the reason most are addicts. Myriad causes to that.

Scott Mayers wrote:

Philosophy Explorer wrote:Optimists believe we live in the best of worlds while pessimists fear this is so.

PhilX

What about realism? I find that my own realistic approach necessarily makes optimists think me as being negative regardless. And if I then try to prove the distinction, I continue to lose. Pessimism, on the other hand, is less likely a function to disrespect because often their real failures give them justice to believe it while it is still natural for us to prefer the positive for ourselves. While 'positive' or 'negative' personalities are due to how well their environment treats them, we still prefer the 'positive' as we internalize those things we like. So it is hard to believe that anyone actually proposes being pessimistic unless they actually find pleasure in how it harms others sadistically.

Scott, you've said a mouthful so for now let me ask how do you know you have a realistic approach?

PhilX

Dalek Prime wrote:

Scott Mayers wrote:

Philosophy Explorer wrote:Optimists believe we live in the best of worlds while pessimists fear this is so.

PhilX

What about realism? I find that my own realistic approach necessarily makes optimists think me as being negative regardless. And if I then try to prove the distinction, I continue to lose. Pessimism, on the other hand, is less likely a function to disrespect because often their real failures give them justice to believe it while it is still natural for us to prefer the positive for ourselves. While 'positive' or 'negative' personalities are due to how well their environment treats them, we still prefer the 'positive' as we internalize those things we like. So it is hard to believe that anyone actually proposes being pessimistic unless they actually find pleasure in how it harms others sadistically.

Pessimism is realism. But that's my bias. And if you understood philanthropic antinatalism, you'd know cessation of suffering is our main concern. Hardly sadistic.

No, I'm unfamiliar with "philanthropic antinatalism". When I saw you or someone else mentioning this before, I thought it was a mispelling of "anti-nationalism". What is your definition of this? I don't deny pessimism in light of realism but accept that both being positive and negative behaviors exist. As to interpretation though, I only say that one is not intentionally pessimistic unless it is either reflective of how they are treated and/or they obtain a derived pleasure in it somehow. It might even be the case that some are also merely indifferent. For instance, one might be have learned to hunt and both does not intentionally hate animals they hunt but just don't care to hunt, even if they are optimistic, pessimistic or realistic.

Philosophy Explorer wrote:

Scott Mayers wrote:

Philosophy Explorer wrote:Optimists believe we live in the best of worlds while pessimists fear this is so.

PhilX

What about realism? I find that my own realistic approach necessarily makes optimists think me as being negative regardless. And if I then try to prove the distinction, I continue to lose. Pessimism, on the other hand, is less likely a function to disrespect because often their real failures give them justice to believe it while it is still natural for us to prefer the positive for ourselves. While 'positive' or 'negative' personalities are due to how well their environment treats them, we still prefer the 'positive' as we internalize those things we like. So it is hard to believe that anyone actually proposes being pessimistic unless they actually find pleasure in how it harms others sadistically.

Scott, you've said a mouthful so for now let me ask how do you know you have a realistic approach?

PhilX

By realist, if you can't infer this from my last post, is merely recognizing that ones' personal interpretation of their behavior towards others (or even themselves) is more complex in nature. What is intended as being positive intent towards another could be realistically negative; what is negative intentionally towards another could actually turn out to be positive by interpretation. Then there are variations of indifference and other more complex beliefs about oneself too. By realistic, I also interpret that nature itself is indifferent to ANY feelings regardless. It doesn't comfort me and even imposes problems as I often try to 'fix' what misinterpretations others may complain of me. Yet, more often, people defer to either indifference or even variations of discomfort and opt to ignore or harm others indirectly, all hard to be certain.

Dalek Prime wrote: Perhaps. I don't have experience with split personality. It's quite rare compared to other mental health issues.

PhilX wrote:You're correct. However it's common on a much higher ratio with those that do drugs and drinking which I can personally testify to.

DalekPrime wrote: It may seem that way, but only because of the drugs. It's not the reason most are addicts. Myriad causes to that.

It's part of the courses that people in rehab enter into regarding split personalities (I had a passenger who changed her mood and her mind at the drop of a hat and it's common knowledge that people do have hidden personalities which come out during drinking and drugging).

PhilX

Philosophy Explorer wrote:

Dalek Prime wrote: Perhaps. I don't have experience with split personality. It's quite rare compared to other mental health issues.

PhilX wrote:You're correct. However it's common on a much higher ratio with those that do drugs and drinking which I can personally testify to.

DalekPrime wrote: It may seem that way, but only because of the drugs. It's not the reason most are addicts. Myriad causes to that.

It's part of the courses that people in rehab enter into regarding split personalities (I had a passenger who changed her mood and her mind at the drop of a hat and it's common knowledge that people do have hidden personalities which come out during drinking and drugging).

PhilX

I've witnessed this too. But all of us can relate to this to some degree. You can be obsessively wanting something so bad, like sex with someone you love, where as soon as you climax, you can completely lose or even oppose your action afterwards and even find disgust in that person instead.

Scott Mayers wrote:

Philosophy Explorer wrote:

Dalek Prime wrote: Perhaps. I don't have experience with split personality. It's quite rare compared to other mental health issues.

PhilX wrote:You're correct. However it's common on a much higher ratio with those that do drugs and drinking which I can personally testify to.

DalekPrime wrote: It may seem that way, but only because of the drugs. It's not the reason most are addicts. Myriad causes to that.

It's part of the courses that people in rehab enter into regarding split personalities (I had a passenger who changed her mood and her mind at the drop of a hat and it's common knowledge that people do have hidden personalities which come out during drinking and drugging).

PhilX

I've witnessed this too. But all of us can relate to this to some degree. You can be obsessively wanting something so bad, like sex with someone you love, where as soon as you climax, you can completely lose or even oppose your action afterwards and even find disgust in that person instead.

I've felt this before.

Scott, you've probably read something from me about philanthropic antinatalism, as I'm the only one who talks about it here. In essence, it is the cessation of harms by not creating new existence through birth.

Scott Mayers wrote:

Philosophy Explorer wrote:

Dalek Prime wrote: Perhaps. I don't have experience with split personality. It's quite rare compared to other mental health issues.

PhilX wrote:You're correct. However it's common on a much higher ratio with those that do drugs and drinking which I can personally testify to.

DalekPrime wrote: It may seem that way, but only because of the drugs. It's not the reason most are addicts. Myriad causes to that.

It's part of the courses that people in rehab enter into regarding split personalities (I had a passenger who changed her mood and her mind at the drop of a hat and it's common knowledge that people do have hidden personalities which come out during drinking and drugging).

PhilX

I've witnessed this too. But all of us can relate to this to some degree. You can be obsessively wanting something so bad, like sex with someone you love, where as soon as you climax, you can completely lose or even oppose your action afterwards and even find disgust in that person instead.

What I'm talking about are those fraction of people who display distinct personalities and count help themselves. Have you ever watched The Three Faces of Eve?

PhilX