Philosophy Now Forum

It seems that they don't. They live the simple life, do what they need to do to survive; some, like dogs and cats, play (i.e. when they're young) and seem to take things in stride.

What do you think?

PhilX

I don't know, why don't we ask them?

Philosophy Explorer wrote:It seems that they don't. They live the simple life, do what they need to do to survive; some, like dogs and cats, play (i.e. when they're young) and seem to take things in stride.

What do you think?

PhilX

Mammals do not have the level of conciousness to know boredom. It is one of humanity's unique sufferings, when nature played it's cruel joke on us, separating humanity from the rest of nature, and allowing us to dwell on it.

Philosophy Explorer wrote:It seems that they don't. They live the simple life, do what they need to do to survive; some, like dogs and cats, play (i.e. when they're young) and seem to take things in stride.

What do you think?

PhilX

My dog has had her walk, and her lunch. No she is looking sad. The moment I get up she appears excited, only to look downhearted the moment I sit back down.

Disconsolately she finds a ball and puts it on my lap and stares at me expectedly. If I ignore her she s drops her ears and she slowly goes back to sit on the sofa and makes a grumbling noise.

If I put mu coat on she rushes to and fro waging her tail running back and forth looking for a ball.
But were I to sit back down she grummbles. And I mean vocally.

Dalek Prime wrote:

Philosophy Explorer wrote:It seems that they don't. They live the simple life, do what they need to do to survive; some, like dogs and cats, play (i.e. when they're young) and seem to take things in stride.

What do you think?

PhilX

Mammals do not have the level of conciousness to know boredom. It is one of humanity's unique sufferings, when nature played it's cruel joke on us, separating humanity from the rest of nature, and allowing us to dwell on it.

Rubbish.
Take a look at any higher mammals that has been kept in a cage with nothing to do, and compare them with members of the same species that are provided with interesting things to do.
In the last 30 or so years, Zoos have been utterly transformed by the knowledge that animals get bored.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuZFzTpcbfY

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_psychopathology

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

Dalek Prime wrote:

Philosophy Explorer wrote:It seems that they don't. They live the simple life, do what they need to do to survive; some, like dogs and cats, play (i.e. when they're young) and seem to take things in stride.

What do you think?

PhilX

Mammals do not have the level of conciousness to know boredom. It is one of humanity's unique sufferings, when nature played it's cruel joke on us, separating humanity from the rest of nature, and allowing us to dwell on it.

Rubbish.
Take a look at any higher mammals that has been kept in a cage with nothing to do, and compare them with members of the same species that are provided with interesting things to do.
In the last 30 or so years, Zoos have been utterly transformed by the knowledge that animals get bored.

Rubbish. It's pure anthropomorphization and romanticism.

Dalek Prime wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

Dalek Prime wrote: Mammals do not have the level of conciousness to know boredom. It is one of humanity's unique sufferings, when nature played it's cruel joke on us, separating humanity from the rest of nature, and allowing us to dwell on it.

Rubbish.
Take a look at any higher mammals that has been kept in a cage with nothing to do, and compare them with members of the same species that are provided with interesting things to do.
In the last 30 or so years, Zoos have been utterly transformed by the knowledge that animals get bored.

Rubbish. It's pure anthropomorphization and romanticism.

Prove that you get bored!! You are just showing behavioural patterns that LOOK like you get bored, but you don't really have the consciousness, being a complete dick head.

Mammals is a fairly large category, encompassing a wide range of intelligence, life-style and complexity, including humans.
Of-bloody-course they get bored. Leave your poodle alone too long and he'll redesign for your leather jacket. Leave him alone with nothing to invent and he'll become psychotic - just as you would in solitary confinement.
Even goldfish get bored - that's why people put fake plants and rocks in their containers.

Skip wrote:Mammals is a fairly large category, encompassing a wide range of intelligence, life-style and complexity, including humans.
Of-bloody-course they get bored. Leave your poodle alone too long and he'll redesign for your leather jacket. Leave him alone with nothing to invent and he'll become psychotic - just as you would in solitary confinement.
Even goldfish get bored - that's why people put fake plants and rocks in their containers.

I'm not sure goldfish have a great capacity for boredom. In fact I image they have a great tolerance for it. But as the brain increases through the animal kingdom we have a difference in degree, not of kind.
Anyone who really thinks an animals can't get bored does not deserve to keep one. That includes farmers, not just pet owners.

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

Skip wrote:Mammals is a fairly large category, encompassing a wide range of intelligence, life-style and complexity, including humans.
Of-bloody-course they get bored. Leave your poodle alone too long and he'll redesign for your leather jacket. Leave him alone with nothing to invent and he'll become psychotic - just as you would in solitary confinement.
Even goldfish get bored - that's why people put fake plants and rocks in their containers.

I'm not sure goldfish have a great capacity for boredom. In fact I image they have a great tolerance for it. But as the brain increases through the animal kingdom we have a difference in degree, not of kind.
Anyone who really thinks an animals can't get bored does not deserve to keep one. That includes farmers, not just pet owners.

Fair enough. I'll return you to the dog shelter, forthwith.

Dalek Prime wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

Skip wrote:Mammals is a fairly large category, encompassing a wide range of intelligence, life-style and complexity, including humans.
Of-bloody-course they get bored. Leave your poodle alone too long and he'll redesign for your leather jacket. Leave him alone with nothing to invent and he'll become psychotic - just as you would in solitary confinement.
Even goldfish get bored - that's why people put fake plants and rocks in their containers.

I'm not sure goldfish have a great capacity for boredom. In fact I image they have a great tolerance for it. But as the brain increases through the animal kingdom we have a difference in degree, not of kind.
Anyone who really thinks an animals can't get bored does not deserve to keep one. That includes farmers, not just pet owners.

Fair enough. I'll return you to the dog shelter, forthwith.

I'd get more sense from dogs that from a brain dead Dalek.

Sense of smell, perhaps.

Hobbes' Choice wrote:I'm not sure goldfish have a great capacity for boredom. In fact I image they have a great tolerance for it.

Maybe they just don't get very much opportunity to express preferences; since they're speechless and helpless, nobody cares what they feel. I'm extrapolating the capacity of fish for boredom from the fact that they can show curiosity and notice novelty. Whenever I'm in a waiting room with a fish tank, I interact with the inmates. (Least you can do for any captive creature.) When I wiggle a hand, in imitation of fin movements, near the glass, at least one, usually several, fish come over to investigate. When they discover it's not a new fish, they lose interest and wonder off, but if I repeat the motion at another point outside the tank, they'll come over there. After four or five repetitions, they don't bother. I find the most inquisitive are usually the big orange fish; little neons don't seem to care and the sleek silver ones are too skittish. I don't know much about fish, but I see a definite variation in both intelligence and inclination.

But as the brain increases through the animal kingdom we have a difference in degree, not of kind.

Of course. We didn't just suddenly hatch out of a cosmic egg.

Skip wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:I'm not sure goldfish have a great capacity for boredom. In fact I image they have a great tolerance for it.

Maybe they just don't get very much opportunity to express preferences; since they're speechless and helpless, nobody cares what they feel. I'm extrapolating the capacity of fish for boredom from the fact that they can show curiosity and notice novelty. Whenever I'm in a waiting room with a fish tank, I interact with the inmates. (Least you can do for any captive creature.) When I wiggle a hand, in imitation of fin movements, near the glass, at least one, usually several, fish come over to investigate. When they discover it's not a new fish, they lose interest and wonder off, but if I repeat the motion at another point outside the tank, they'll come over there. After four or five repetitions, they don't bother. I find the most inquisitive are usually the big orange fish; little neons don't seem to care and the sleek silver ones are too skittish. I don't know much about fish, but I see a definite variation in both intelligence and inclination.

But as the brain increases through the animal kingdom we have a difference in degree, not of kind.

Of course. We didn't just suddenly hatch out of a cosmic egg.

I think we can agree on that then.