Philosophy Now Forum

Who ruled heaven on this day. God or Satan?

This quote speaks of God choosing Jesus as a human sacrifice to take our just punishment for our sins. Dogma says that we cannot redeem ourselves from God condemnation. 1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

The above quote shows this as Gods first actual judgement as judge and shows the setting and accepting of a bribe or human sacrifice to corrupt his justice. That justice usually stated that only the punishment of the guilty was acceptable to justice and that it would be unjust to punish the innocent. The corruption of God’s usual justice is what the bribe or sacrifice of Jesus bought. Injustice.

Recognizing that by whatever word you would use, sacrifice, ransom, bribe or payment, would you say such an immoral request and legal injustice would most likely be demanded by a God or by a Satan?

If punishing the innocent is not a just and moral thing to do, I would say that Satan would be the one to ask or demand such a sacrifice.

That would have Satan ruling heaven and not God as a good God would not do such an immoral thing.

Do you agree that Satan is more likely to ask for us to accept an immoral human sacrifice to bail us out than God would?

If you agree, does that indicate that Satan was ruling in heaven and not God on that day?

Regards
DL

I have had on and off battles with God\'God' for years and not once has satan crossed my path. If you want a satan, look no farther than God as it is the Alpha and Omega. To dwell on such terms as satan is to suggest a simple, borderline caveman mentality.

People usually find what they are looking for, they usually don't find what they are not looking for.

thedoc wrote:People usually find what they are looking for, they usually don't find what they are not looking for.

Not when it comes to God and satan.

attofishpi wrote:

thedoc wrote:People usually find what they are looking for, they usually don't find what they are not looking for.

Not when it comes to God and satan.

I would have to disagree that when someone is looking to not find God, God will politely stay out of sight till the person wants to find God. Satan is another matter altogether, and Satan will intrude on your life if you let him. Of course the difference is that once a person is looking to find God, they will find that God is looking to find them as well.

thedoc wrote:

attofishpi wrote:

thedoc wrote:People usually find what they are looking for, they usually don't find what they are not looking for.

Not when it comes to God and satan.

I would have to disagree that when someone is looking to not find God, God will politely stay out of sight till the person wants to find God. Satan is another matter altogether, and Satan will intrude on your life if you let him. Of course the difference is that once a person is looking to find God, they will find that God is looking to find them as well.

Well, this isn't entirely true. If you believe the bible, there are plenty of stories where God deliberately didn't interfere or allowed great hardship, to test a person's faith.

I just don't get behind this, you-will-have-heaven-on-Earth if you find God. It's simply not true.

thedoc wrote:

attofishpi wrote:

thedoc wrote:People usually find what they are looking for, they usually don't find what they are not looking for.

Not when it comes to God and satan.

I would have to disagree that when someone is looking to not find God, God will politely stay out of sight till the person wants to find God. Satan is another matter altogether, and Satan will intrude on your life if you let him. Of course the difference is that once a person is looking to find God, they will find that God is looking to find them as well.

Although we both appear to have experienced God's existence to the point of knowing it exists, we are so far apart on the clarity. Theists in general are searching for this entities existence in the multitudes with no such result. Searching for IT, rarely results in one finding it.
And satan...what a bunch of God inflicted bible buy bull...really, thought you would be a little more intelligent.

artisticsolution wrote:Well, this isn't entirely true. If you believe the bible, there are plenty of stories where God deliberately didn't interfere or allowed great hardship, to test a person's faith.

Yes, i am an example. I would step further in stating God was the cause of my great hardship.

artisticsolution wrote:I just don't get behind this, you-will-have-heaven-on-Earth if you find God. It's simply not true.

Yes it is. I have experienced both hell and heaven...right here on Earth...still hoping for the latter to prevail..eventually.

attofishpi wrote:

artisticsolution wrote:Well, this isn't entirely true. If you believe the bible, there are plenty of stories where God deliberately didn't interfere or allowed great hardship, to test a person's faith.

Yes, i am an example. I would step further in stating God was the cause of my great hardship.

If there is a God (good), then there is a Satan(evil)...correct? So if there is a God, and there is a Satan, then how would you differentiate between the two using your example above?

Why would there even be a need to have 2 different entities if one is sufficient enough to produce both good and evil?

artisticsolution wrote:I just don't get behind this, you-will-have-heaven-on-Earth if you find God. It's simply not true.

attofishpi wrote:Yes it is. I have experienced both hell and heaven...right here on Earth...still hoping for the latter to prevail..eventually.

You missed the meaning of my statement. I should have added, ..."it's simply not true as one can have both heaven and hell, whether they find God or not."

artisticsolution wrote:If there is a God (good), then there is a Satan(evil)...correct?

No.

artisticsolution wrote:So if there is a God, and there is a Satan, then how would you differentiate between the two using your example above?

I don't need to differentiate because i find the notion of a satan existing ridiculous.

artisticsolution wrote:Why would there even be a need to have 2 different entities if one is sufficient enough to produce both good and evil?

Precisely.

artisticsolution wrote:You missed the meaning of my statement. I should have added, ..."it's simply not true as one can have both heaven and hell, whether they find God or not."

Sure, depending on how you define heaven and hell.

attofishpi wrote:

artisticsolution wrote:If there is a God (good), then there is a Satan(evil)...correct?

No.

artisticsolution wrote:So if there is a God, and there is a Satan, then how would you differentiate between the two using your example above?

I don't need to differentiate because i find the notion of a satan existing ridiculous.

artisticsolution wrote:Why would there even be a need to have 2 different entities if one is sufficient enough to produce both good and evil?

Precisely.

artisticsolution wrote:You missed the meaning of my statement. I should have added, ..."it's simply not true as one can have both heaven and hell, whether they find God or not."

Sure, depending on how you define heaven and hell.

Am I correct in reading this that you attribute both the good things to God, and the Evil, (that many people attribute to Satan) and many things in between? Thus needing only one entity, God, to account for all that is and happens.

thedoc wrote:

attofishpi wrote:

artisticsolution wrote:If there is a God (good), then there is a Satan(evil)...correct?

No.

artisticsolution wrote:So if there is a God, and there is a Satan, then how would you differentiate between the two using your example above?

I don't need to differentiate because i find the notion of a satan existing ridiculous.

artisticsolution wrote:Why would there even be a need to have 2 different entities if one is sufficient enough to produce both good and evil?

Precisely.

artisticsolution wrote:You missed the meaning of my statement. I should have added, ..."it's simply not true as one can have both heaven and hell, whether they find God or not."

Sure, depending on how you define heaven and hell.

Am I correct in reading this that you attribute both the good things to God, and the Evil, (that many people attribute to Satan) and many things in between? Thus needing only one entity, God, to account for all that is and happens.

Thank you Doc, I was going to reply the same.

thedoc wrote:Am I correct in reading this that you attribute both the good things to God, and the Evil, (that many people attribute to Satan) and many things in between?

Yes, but not all. I attribute lots of good things to God and lots of evil things to God...from EXPERIENCE of God.
I've never heard of anyone attributing anything to satan. Please provide a recent example.

thedoc wrote:Thus needing only one entity, God, to account for all that is and happens.

No.
There is a lot of good that people do, and a lot of evil that people do, don't start praising or blaming God.

artisticsolution wrote:They (christians) need a bible in order to know wrong from right and they doubt that anyone can have a moral compass without God."

Taking your quote from your thread, apologies if this offends. I consider myself a Christian, simply because i know Christ that died on a crucifix was the Christ.

I disagree wholeheartedly with your presumption, an ill conceived conception that i would somehow think that there is no moral compass without God.

attofishpi wrote:

artisticsolution wrote:They (christians) need a bible in order to know wrong from right and they doubt that anyone can have a moral compass without God."

Taking your quote from your thread, apologies if this offends. I consider myself a Christian, simply because i know Christ that died on a crucifix was the Christ.

I disagree wholeheartedly with your presumption, an ill conceived conception that i would somehow think that there is no moral compass without God.

Sorry attofishy...I should have said, " Most Christians...."

Heat of the argument, ya know! Thanks for bringing it to my attention.