Philosophy Now Forum

According to the Pope:-
"The Earth, our home, is beginning to look more and more like an immense pile of filth," Francis said. "In many parts of the planet, the elderly lament that once beautiful landscapes are now covered with rubbish."

Well, that's because beautiful landscapes are now covered with people...perhaps someone should explain to him that rampant population growth is the primal cause of this, but of course, contraception is a sin...

Idiot.

Hmmm....

http://vhemt.org/

And there is someone left on Earth who is surprised by the hypocrisy of a pope? Now that's a miracle.

"Hallelujah,
hallelujah,
hallelujah, hallelujah,
hal-le-lu-jah!"

(Thank you, Handel.)

Dalek Prime wrote:"Hallelujah,
hallelujah,
hallelujah, hallelujah,
hal-le-lu-jah!"

When you are at the mercy of God it quite simply translates homophonically and rather aptly as "how they loo ya" !

I can appreciate that lol!

Dalek Prime wrote:"Hallelujah,
hallelujah,
hallelujah, hallelujah,
hal-le-lu-jah!"

(Thank you, Handel.)

Leonard Cohen, no? (I love how people keep playing that song at funerals and solemn occasions. Don't they listen to lyrics?)

Yeah, but I was going with Handel's Messiah.

attofishpi wrote:According to the Pope:-
"The Earth, our home, is beginning to look more and more like an immense pile of filth," Francis said. "In many parts of the planet, the elderly lament that once beautiful landscapes are now covered with rubbish."

Well, that's because beautiful landscapes are now covered with people...perhaps someone should explain to him that rampant population growth is the primal cause of this, but of course, contraception is a sin...

Idiot.

Of course, the Pope would respond that it's the people who are procreating outside the "will" of God who are the problem. If everyone was a good Catholic and followed God's will, the Earth wouldn't be overpopulated and contraception would still be a sin.

So no, his message is actually coherent... even if it's not convincing to most.

ReliStuPhD wrote:Of course, the Pope would respond that it's the people who are procreating outside the "will" of God who are the problem. If everyone was a good Catholic and followed God's will, the Earth wouldn't be overpopulated and contraception would still be a sin.

So no, his message is actually coherent... even if it's not convincing to most.

Sure, but where is he getting this idea - procreating outside the "will" of God, from? And from where is he getting the idea that contraception is a sin?

From his own encyclical, of course. Remember, he and all his predecessors are infallible, so whatever bs they publish goes for all catholics. Now, if all the non-catholics, whose marriages are unconsecrated, would just stop making little non-cathoics, everything would be fine..

attofishpi wrote:

ReliStuPhD wrote:Of course, the Pope would respond that it's the people who are procreating outside the "will" of God who are the problem. If everyone was a good Catholic and followed God's will, the Earth wouldn't be overpopulated and contraception would still be a sin.

So no, his message is actually coherent... even if it's not convincing to most.

Sure, but where is he getting this idea - procreating outside the "will" of God, from? And from where is he getting the idea that contraception is a sin?

From over a millennium of Church teaching. I'm not saying I buy into it, mind you, but the RCC has a pretty clear framework to address this particular issue. Pope Francis isn't just "winging" it here. He may not be spending the time to really break it down, but he's definitely speaking with Church teachings in mind. So no, I don't think it's hypocritical or idiotic, but I think it can definitely be unconvincing, etc. Which is to say, I agree with your point that it's not a particularly good explanation, even if I don't agree with your assessment regarding the coherence of the position.

Skip wrote:From his own encyclical, of course. Remember, he and all his predecessors are infallible, so whatever bs they publish goes for all catholics. Now, if all the non-catholics, whose marriages are unconsecrated, would just stop making little non-cathoics, everything would be fine..

This is not how infallibility works, at least not officially. Just because the Pope says or writes something, it doesn't mean it's infallible. The Pope is only infallible...

First Vatican Council wrote:...when the Roman Pontiff speaks EX CATHEDRA, that is, when, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church, he possesses, by the divine assistance promised to him in blessed Peter, that infallibility which the divine Redeemer willed his Church to enjoy in defining doctrine concerning faith or morals.
First Dogmatic Constitution on the Church of Christ, Chapter 4, "On the Infallible Teaching Authority of the Roman Pontiff"

In this particular case, he's not speaking ex cathedra (that I'm aware of), so his comments could well be fallible.

ReliStuPhD wrote:

attofishpi wrote:

ReliStuPhD wrote:Of course, the Pope would respond that it's the people who are procreating outside the "will" of God who are the problem. If everyone was a good Catholic and followed God's will, the Earth wouldn't be overpopulated and contraception would still be a sin.

So no, his message is actually coherent... even if it's not convincing to most.

Sure, but where is he getting this idea - procreating outside the "will" of God, from? And from where is he getting the idea that contraception is a sin?

From over a millennium of Church teaching. I'm not saying I buy into it, mind you, but the RCC has a pretty clear framework to address this particular issue. Pope Francis isn't just "winging" it here. He may not be spending the time to really break it down, but he's definitely speaking with Church teachings in mind. So no, I don't think it's hypocritical or idiotic, but I think it can definitely be unconvincing, etc. Which is to say, I agree with your point that it's not a particularly good explanation, even if I don't agree with your assessment regarding the coherence of the position.

Nice avoidance, but you didn't answer his question.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:

ReliStuPhD wrote:

attofishpi wrote:Sure, but where is he getting this idea - procreating outside the "will" of God, from? And from where is he getting the idea that contraception is a sin?

From over a millennium of Church teaching. I'm not saying I buy into it, mind you, but the RCC has a pretty clear framework to address this particular issue. Pope Francis isn't just "winging" it here. He may not be spending the time to really break it down, but he's definitely speaking with Church teachings in mind. So no, I don't think it's hypocritical or idiotic, but I think it can definitely be unconvincing, etc. Which is to say, I agree with your point that it's not a particularly good explanation, even if I don't agree with your assessment regarding the coherence of the position.

Nice avoidance, but you didn't answer his question.

Sure I did. Contraception being a sin is church teaching. Has been for pretty much as far back as the Church goes. You want to know how the Church arrives at this teaching, go read church teachings. Not all that hard. Wikipedia would do in a pinch. Or, you could just Google it.

EDIT: With respect to overpopulation, just change "sin" in the lmgtfy to "overpopulation" and then look for a Catholic source. There's an article by a prof at Duke that gets at the teachings, iirc (not that he's RCC, but I seem to recall him giving a pretty fair summary of church teaching on the subject).