Philosophy Now Forum

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Is it a sin to want to open one’s eyes instead of being blind?

Is it a sin to do as scriptures urge us to do?

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Gen 3:2 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

Adam and Eve were doing exactly what we are all told by scriptures to do, yet God seemed quite upset.

Why is seeking knowledge and ignoring a vile command to remain in ignorant bliss wrong or a sin?

Are you sinning when you seek knowledge and becoming more like God?

Regards
DL

Greatest I am wrote:Adam and Eve were doing exactly what we are all told by scriptures to do, yet God seemed quite upset.

It's not the "Tree of Knowledge" from which Eve ate, but the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil." So (going by the Biblical narrative) the problem was that Eve and Adam learned what evil was. It was not knowledge sui generis that God forbade, but a particular type of knowledge--of evil. The reason this posed a problem was that an idyllic existence was ruined by an awareness of, and penchant toward, evil. That seeking knowledge of evil would be considered a sin in a place where evil does not exist seems reasonable enough, imo.

As for seeking knowledge in general, I'm not aware of any passage in the scriptures of the various religious traditions that casts seeking "knowledge" as a sin, though many refer to the pitfalls of being, shall we say, "too smart for your own good."

ReliStuPhD wrote:[

quote="Greatest I am"]Adam and Eve were doing exactly what we are all told by scriptures to do, yet God seemed quite upset.

It's not the "Tree of Knowledge" from which Eve ate, but the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil."

I think that the tree of knowledge of good and evil is basically a tree of all knowledge as all issues and concepts are subject to good and evil.

I can't think of anything that I would exempt and have refuted any suggestions in the past.

Care to list an item or two that is not subject to good and evil? It can be knowledge or anything else.

So (going by the Biblical narrative) the problem was that Eve and Adam learned what evil was.

And what was good.

It was not knowledge sui generis that God forbade, but a particular type of knowledge--of evil.

And good.

The reason this posed a problem was that an idyllic existence was ruined by an awareness of, and penchant toward, evil.

And good. Like reproduction can sometimes be.

How is being too stupid to even know you are naked or that you can reproduce idyllic?

If nothing changed, you would end with a world with 2 people on it who were as bright as bricks.

That seeking knowledge of evil would be considered a sin in a place where evil does not exist seems reasonable enough, imo.

I think that having humans with mental blindness and too stupid to reproduce or even know they are naked as evil. Do you see that as good?

As for seeking knowledge in general, I'm not aware of any passage in the scriptures of the various religious traditions that casts seeking "knowledge" as a sin, though many refer to the pitfalls of being, shall we say, "too smart for your own good."

[/quote]

I know of no such person. Do you have an example?

What A & E did, seek knowledge, the church calls Original Sin.

I agree that scriptures are vague but Christianity definitely thinks gaining a moral sense and knowledge as evil. If not, they would not name it Original Sin and a fall.

You might have noted that the original authors of the myth do not have an Original Sin concept and saw Eden as the place of mankind's elevation.

I think Christianity reversed that view because there was more money and false guilt in their take on it.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am wrote:

ReliStuPhD wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:Adam and Eve were doing exactly what we are all told by scriptures to do, yet God seemed quite upset.

It's not the "Tree of Knowledge" from which Eve ate, but the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil."

I think that the tree of knowledge of good and evil is basically a tree of all knowledge as all issues and concepts are subject to good and evil.
I can't think of anything that I would exempt and have refuted any suggestions in the past.

Perhaps so, but from the standpoint of the biblical narrative, I think it's relatively clear that this knowledge is limited, not that it's knowledge in general that God forbids.

Greatest I am wrote:

ReliStuPhD wrote:So (going by the Biblical narrative) the problem was that Eve and Adam learned what evil was.

And what was good.

Creation prior to "the Fall."

Greatest I am wrote:

ReliStuPhD wrote: It was not knowledge sui generis that God forbade, but a particular type of knowledge--of evil.

And good.

Right, but only in the sense of being set over and against something else. So their knowledge of Eden, for example, didn't change, other than it suddenly existed over and against something else. And ultimately, it's over that "something else" that God forbade them to eat from the tree.

Greatest I am wrote:

ReliStuPhD wrote:The reason this posed a problem was that an idyllic existence was ruined by an awareness of, and penchant toward, evil.

And good. Like reproduction can sometimes be.
How is being too stupid to even know you are naked or that you can reproduce idyllic?

Well, no. Reproduction was fine. Still is. But with the knowledge evil would come things like infidelity, rape, incest, etc, etc, etc. So that's where eating from the tree became an issue. So again, it's not the good that posed any sort of issue. Adam and Eve already knew the good, they just didn't have a word for it, if you will. But suddenl;y, they're like "Holy shit. Rape. That's evil." but it's too late, because the thought is now there.

Greatest I am wrote:

ReliStuPhD wrote:That seeking knowledge of evil would be considered a sin in a place where evil does not exist seems reasonable enough, imo.

I think that having humans with mental blindness and too stupid to reproduce or even know they are naked as evil. Do you see that as good?

Well, they knew they were naked, they just weren't ashamed of it. With the tree, they suddenly were (evil = voyeurism, lust, etc). As for reproducing, I don't know of anything that suggested Adam and Eve would not have had children had they not eaten from the tree.

Greatest I am wrote:

ReliStuPhD wrote:As for seeking knowledge in general, I'm not aware of any passage in the scriptures of the various religious traditions that casts seeking "knowledge" as a sin, though many refer to the pitfalls of being, shall we say, "too smart for your own good."

I know of no such person. Do you have an example?

Well, I would say any atheist.

Greatest I am wrote:What A & E did, seek knowledge, the church calls Original Sin.

Well, the Church does not define this as seeking knowledge, but rather seeking the forbidden knowledge of evil. On just sort of a general principle, it seems to me that to seek knowledge of evil in a place where evil does not exist is, indeed, a sin.

Greatest I am wrote:I agree that scriptures are vague but Christianity definitely thinks gaining a moral sense and knowledge as evil.

Well, it is if no evil exists. Hence the problem. "Here's a perfect world with no evil in it. ... Dammit! Why did you go seek knowledge of evil!?!?!"

Greatest I am wrote:You might have noted that the original authors of the myth do not have an Original Sin concept and saw Eden as the place of mankind's elevation.

Right, Original Sin comes later, but it's clear from the narrative that the original authors definitely saw Eve's move as the beginning of humans' downfall.

Greatest I am

..why do u ask silly questions?!?

HexHammer wrote:Greatest I am

..why do u ask silly questions?!?

To get fools to ask sillier questions about why he asks silly questions.
Maybe you'd like to provide some content; such as why do you think this is silly since it has been a plank of Christian ideology to make knowledge acquisition sinful.

Greatest I am wrote: What A & E did, seek knowledge, the church calls Original Sin.

No, what the church calls Original Sin is not the search of knowledge by Adam and Eve, the OS is having disregarded God, having betrayed his confidence.
I think deceiving your father's confidence is the worst sin that a human being could be able to do.

David Handeye wrote:

Greatest I am wrote: What A & E did, seek knowledge, the church calls Original Sin.

No, what the church calls Original Sin is not the search of knowledge by Adam and Eve, the OS is having disregarded God, having betrayed his confidence..

it's quite obviously both. God wished to maintain Adam and Eve infantilised and unaware of "forbidden knowledge'. Adam thus taking a bite out of the apple can be understood as disobeying, but there has to be a reason for the rule in the first place.
At a stoke the story shows us a lesson about human curiosity and how it is strong enough to overcome a divine rule; shows how untrustworthy women are; and demonstrates the danger of knowledge.

Thus the priestly class impose a restriction upon the laity seeking the hermetic knowledge of the priesthood; place women in a position of blame, for which the man has to carry the can, and imply that salvation is only through the pontificating (literally forming a bridge to the divine realm) of those with the hotline to god.

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

HexHammer wrote:Greatest I am

..why do u ask silly questions?!?

To get fools to ask sillier questions about why he asks silly questions.
Maybe you'd like to provide some content; such as why do you think this is silly since it has been a plank of Christian ideology to make knowledge acquisition sinful.

For anyone with just a tiiiiny amount of intellect, the answer should be given.

HexHammer wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

HexHammer wrote:Greatest I am

..why do u ask silly questions?!?

To get fools to ask sillier questions about why he asks silly questions.
Maybe you'd like to provide some content; such as why do you think this is silly since it has been a plank of Christian ideology to make knowledge acquisition sinful.

For anyone with just a tiiiiny amount of intellect, the answer should be given.

Is that why you have not answered this?

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

David Handeye wrote:

Greatest I am wrote: What A & E did, seek knowledge, the church calls Original Sin.

No, what the church calls Original Sin is not the search of knowledge by Adam and Eve, the OS is having disregarded God, having betrayed his confidence..

it's quite obviously both. God wished to maintain Adam and Eve infantilised and unaware of "forbidden knowledge'. Adam thus taking a bite out of the apple can be understood as disobeying, but there has to be a reason for the rule in the first place.
At a stoke the story shows us a lesson about human curiosity and how it is strong enough to overcome a divine rule; shows how untrustworthy women are; and demonstrates the danger of knowledge.

Thus the priestly class impose a restriction upon the laity seeking the hermetic knowledge of the priesthood; place women in a position of blame, for which the man has to carry the can, and imply that salvation is only through the pontificating (literally forming a bridge to the divine realm) of those with the hotline to god.

Nicely done.

Regards
DL

[quote="ReliStuPhD"][

How can you use so many quotes and I can't. Sigh.

My main comments are that you have taken the good out of the tree of knowledge of good AND evil and seem to think that evil can be known without also knowing it's opposite. You are brighter than that.

You also indicate that it was good in the garden before they ate.

Is a person a better person with or without the moral sense that comes from knowing of good and evil?

I would say a person is better with a moral sense so think again buddy. You are better with a moral sense.

I did snag this quote to answer.

"Right, Original Sin comes later, but it's clear from the narrative that the original authors definitely saw Eve's move as the beginning of humans' downfall."

Sure but look at all the other garbage they believe.

Only a fool would trust Christian judgements on such matters when they are adoring a genocidal son murdering God.

Regards
DL

HexHammer wrote:Greatest I am

..why do u ask silly questions?!?

Do you not recognize how the story of Eden has been used to bludgeon women into second class citizens forever?

Should all moral men not try to discredit this story as well as Christianity for the injustice they are creating?

Regards
DL

David Handeye wrote:

Greatest I am wrote: What A & E did, seek knowledge, the church calls Original Sin.

No, what the church calls Original Sin is not the search of knowledge by Adam and Eve, the OS is having disregarded God, having betrayed his confidence.
I think deceiving your father's confidence is the worst sin that a human being could be able to do.

Is it?

Or would it be a father forbidding his children from gaining an education and remaining basically as bright as bricks and too stupid to even know they are naked?

If you are a parent, which standard would you enforce with your children?

Would you advise then to remain blind, or would you tell them to disregard what is a really stupid command?

Regards
DL

Greatest I am wrote:

David Handeye wrote:

Greatest I am wrote: What A & E did, seek knowledge, the church calls Original Sin.

No, what the church calls Original Sin is not the search of knowledge by Adam and Eve, the OS is having disregarded God, having betrayed his confidence.
I think deceiving your father's confidence is the worst sin that a human being could be able to do.

Is it?

Or would it be a father forbidding his children from gaining an education and remaining basically as bright as bricks and too stupid to even know they are naked?

If you are a parent, which standard would you enforce with your children?

Would you advise then to remain blind, or would you tell them to disregard what is a really stupid command?

Regards
DL

As a parent I would teach them. I wouldn't let them learning by themselves.