Philosophy Now Forum

A life sentence would be a better economic proposition.

Hobbes' Choice wrote:A life sentence would be a better economic proposition.

A better economic proposition for whom? It costs far less to kill a person than to provide him with food, clothing, shelter and medical care.

The mother of the Boston bombing suspects says she does not believe her sons carried out the marathon attacks.
“My sons were framed by the US authorities.”

"I felt like a bullet went through my heart," the coach recalls. "To think that a kid we mentored and loved like a son could have been responsible for all this death. It was beyond shocking. It was like an alternative reality."

bobevenson wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:A life sentence would be a better economic proposition.

A better economic proposition for whom? It costs far less to kill a person than to provide him with food, clothing, shelter and medical care.

Idiot.
Death Row is the most expensive Hotel on the Planet: appeals, special cells,

Pluto wrote:The mother of the Boston bombing suspects says she does not believe her sons carried out the marathon attacks.
“My sons were framed by the US authorities.”

"I felt like a bullet went through my heart," the coach recalls. "To think that a kid we mentored and loved like a son could have been responsible for all this death. It was beyond shocking. It was like an alternative reality."

It is clear that many 'kids' are being seduced by fundamentalism. Rather than kill them for being brainwashed and the tragic results, why not get to grips with the mental state and teach them how to think/re-think. Find more positive ways for kids to vent deep-seated anger. Otherwise, this only adds more fuel to the fire and hatred; the 'us and them' - the 'either for or against us','black and white' thinking which both 'sides' are guilty of.

Attack faulty generalisations which demonise and depersonalise whole populations.
Philosophers, educators and journalists have a lot to answer for, or to offer. Allowing papers their rhetoric without serious challenge. This ain't good enough. Put your degrees and certificated thinking into action. Oh wait...

People only see what they want to see. Or are given to see.
We need to see what we need to see.
This kid is more than just a 'Boston Marathon Bomber'. What the hell is his story...?

Will we never get over the 'eye for an eye' philosophy ?
Death Row is an abomination.

marjoram_blues wrote:

Pluto wrote:The mother of the Boston bombing suspects says she does not believe her sons carried out the marathon attacks.
“My sons were framed by the US authorities.”

"I felt like a bullet went through my heart," the coach recalls. "To think that a kid we mentored and loved like a son could have been responsible for all this death. It was beyond shocking. It was like an alternative reality."

It is clear that many 'kids' are being seduced by fundamentalism. Rather than kill them for being brainwashed and the tragic results, why not get to grips with the mental state and teach them how to think/re-think. Find more positive ways for kids to vent deep-seated anger. Otherwise, this only adds more fuel to the fire and hatred; the 'us and them' - the 'either for or against us','black and white' thinking which both 'sides' are guilty of.
...
Death Row is an abomination.

The trouble is figuring out exactly who these kids are.
All we see is a list of shocked parents, and a trail of blood.

I agree that Death Row is an abomination. But there are thousands of Palestinian Children on a a kind of death row now, waiting for the next asymmetrical attack from Israel who refuse them basic supplies that we all take for granted. In many Islamic states the West is either interfering or is actively disrupting, killing and sanctioning in its own interests. Each year thousands die by proxy for the West's thirst for oil, and geo-political control.

The point about these "fundamentalists" kids is that they are paying attention to what is going on, and feel that no one is listening to them. With mixed loyalties, they can easily switch allegiance. You are assuming they do not have good reason. They do.
Until we understand that, then they will always seem incoherent.

Here's a parallel situation. All this week there are been several cities in the UK where thousands of people have marched out onto the street in protest about "Austerity". None of this had been covered by the media. "Austerity" was not even a significant election issue, because the people in control have other interests. No one is listening to minoritiy views. The only time they pay attention is when riots break out from frustration.

For the ideological war between the "west" and "Islam" the media are basically pro-Israel. But to anyone watching what is going on, and listening to dissenting voices (which can be found outside the mainstream media) the main stream is a stream of lies. Lies which continue to justify, inflame and reproduce a conflict that has taken the place of the anti-communist propaganda since the fall of the Soviet.
Our governments are committing crimes in our names. I don't agree with bombing, but I understand why.

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

marjoram_blues wrote:

Pluto wrote:The mother of the Boston bombing suspects says she does not believe her sons carried out the marathon attacks.
“My sons were framed by the US authorities.”

"I felt like a bullet went through my heart," the coach recalls. "To think that a kid we mentored and loved like a son could have been responsible for all this death. It was beyond shocking. It was like an alternative reality."

It is clear that many 'kids' are being seduced by fundamentalism. Rather than kill them for being brainwashed and the tragic results, why not get to grips with the mental state and teach them how to think/re-think. Find more positive ways for kids to vent deep-seated anger. Otherwise, this only adds more fuel to the fire and hatred; the 'us and them' - the 'either for or against us','black and white' thinking which both 'sides' are guilty of.
...
Death Row is an abomination.

The trouble is figuring out exactly who these kids are.
All we see is a list of shocked parents, and a trail of blood.

I agree that Death Row is an abomination. But there are thousands of Palestinian Children on a a kind of death row now, waiting for the next asymmetrical attack from Israel who refuse them basic supplies that we all take for granted. In many Islamic states the West is either interfering or is actively disrupting, killing and sanctioning in its own interests. Each year thousands die by proxy for the West's thirst for oil, and geo-political control.

The point about these "fundamentalists" kids is that they are paying attention to what is going on, and feel that no one is listening to them. With mixed loyalties, they can easily switch allegiance. You are assuming they do not have good reason. They do.
Until we understand that, then they will always seem incoherent.

Here's a parallel situation. All this week there are been several cities in the UK where thousands of people have marched out onto the street in protest about "Austerity". None of this had been covered by the media. "Austerity" was not even a significant election issue, because the people in control have other interests. No one is listening to minoritiy views. The only time they pay attention is when riots break out from frustration.

For the ideological war between the "west" and "Islam" the media are basically pro-Israel. But to anyone watching what is going on, and listening to dissenting voices (which can be found outside the mainstream media) the main stream is a stream of lies. Lies which continue to justify, inflame and reproduce a conflict that has taken the place of the anti-communist propaganda since the fall of the Soviet.
Our governments are committing crimes in our names. I don't agree with bombing, but I understand why.

I agree with you.
Except for:

You are assuming they do not have good reason. They do.
Until we understand that, then they will always seem incoherent.

Of course, there are good reasons why they hate. I meant that they should not be punished by death but rather we should look at the reasons. There are good mixed up with wrong.

Re the UK and alleged need for 'Austerity'. Of course it was an election issue. It's the Conservative economic strategy. More Cuts.
The SNP fought and won a landslide, based on being anti-Tory and anti-austerity. It was discussed in all the debates.

I worry for the summer - with even more cutbacks. We will see water cannon...

HC wrote: For the ideological war between the "west" and "Islam" the media are basically pro-Israel. But to anyone watching what is going on, and listening to dissenting voices (which can be found outside the mainstream media) the main stream is a stream of lies

I consider Channel 4 news as mainstream. However, it usually presents an all-round view of 'what's going on', providing lively and real challenges. It is not pro-Israel. They have a team of excellent, intelligent and dedicated journalists.

Not all mainstream stream lies. Not all non-mainstream tell the truth.

marjoram_blues wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

marjoram_blues wrote:
It is clear that many 'kids' are being seduced by fundamentalism. Rather than kill them for being brainwashed and the tragic results, why not get to grips with the mental state and teach them how to think/re-think. Find more positive ways for kids to vent deep-seated anger. Otherwise, this only adds more fuel to the fire and hatred; the 'us and them' - the 'either for or against us','black and white' thinking which both 'sides' are guilty of.
...
Death Row is an abomination.

The trouble is figuring out exactly who these kids are.
All we see is a list of shocked parents, and a trail of blood.

I agree that Death Row is an abomination. But there are thousands of Palestinian Children on a a kind of death row now, waiting for the next asymmetrical attack from Israel who refuse them basic supplies that we all take for granted. In many Islamic states the West is either interfering or is actively disrupting, killing and sanctioning in its own interests. Each year thousands die by proxy for the West's thirst for oil, and geo-political control.

The point about these "fundamentalists" kids is that they are paying attention to what is going on, and feel that no one is listening to them. With mixed loyalties, they can easily switch allegiance. You are assuming they do not have good reason. They do.
Until we understand that, then they will always seem incoherent.

Here's a parallel situation. All this week there are been several cities in the UK where thousands of people have marched out onto the street in protest about "Austerity". None of this had been covered by the media. "Austerity" was not even a significant election issue, because the people in control have other interests. No one is listening to minoritiy views. The only time they pay attention is when riots break out from frustration.

For the ideological war between the "west" and "Islam" the media are basically pro-Israel. But to anyone watching what is going on, and listening to dissenting voices (which can be found outside the mainstream media) the main stream is a stream of lies. Lies which continue to justify, inflame and reproduce a conflict that has taken the place of the anti-communist propaganda since the fall of the Soviet.
Our governments are committing crimes in our names. I don't agree with bombing, but I understand why.

I agree with you.
Except for:

You are assuming they do not have good reason. They do.
Until we understand that, then they will always seem incoherent.

Of course, there are good reasons why they hate. I meant that they should not be punished by death but rather we should look at the reasons. There are good mixed up with wrong.

Re the UK and alleged need for 'Austerity'. Of course it was an election issue. It's the Conservative economic strategy. More Cuts.
The SNP fought and won a landslide, based on being anti-Tory and anti-austerity. It was discussed in all the debates.

I worry for the summer - with even more cutbacks. We will see water cannon...

No it was not an election issue if you can't get to vote against it, as no party took issue with it in England.
The only party offering that was the SNP and they won a landslide.

marjoram_blues wrote:

HC wrote: For the ideological war between the "west" and "Islam" the media are basically pro-Israel. But to anyone watching what is going on, and listening to dissenting voices (which can be found outside the mainstream media) the main stream is a stream of lies

I consider Channel 4 news as mainstream. However, it usually presents an all-round view of 'what's going on', providing lively and real challenges. It is not pro-Israel. They have a team of excellent, intelligent and dedicated journalists.

Not all mainstream stream lies. Not all non-mainstream tell the truth.

Yes, there is always Channel 4, the last bastion of News in the UK.

I tend to watch Al Jazeera for world News, and try to contrast it with RT. It takes away the blinkered view that the BBC now presents.

HC wrote: No it was not an election issue if you can't get to vote against it, as no party took issue with it in England. The only party offering that was the SNP and they won a landslide.

I realise that we are heading way off topic here [sorry folks] * but HC you are wrong. It was and remains a big issue.
In the UK General Election - other than the SNP as I mentioned, we had the Welsh Plaid Cymru and the Greens as anti-austerity.

*[ If we need to talk more about this, then best elsewhere ]

Can we with a clear conscience ignore those who say it wasn't so?