Philosophy Now Forum

Is it white hair and wrinkly skin? Seems like a new ball game thanks, in part, to technology. Is it a disease? (I don't think so as we die due to specific causes). How would we identify old age? Are there any benefits to it?

What is the purpose of old age?

PhilX

Purpose? It is the end of a process. Your telomeres are wearing down, and one looks old because the body can no longer rebuild as it once did eg. collagen, other proteins, bones, etc.

Dalek Prime wrote:Purpose? It is the end of a process. Your telomeres are wearing down, and one looks old because the body can no longer rebuild as it once did eg. collagen, other proteins, bones, etc.

Does this fit in with TOE? (the theory of evolution) or does it run counter to it?

PhilX

Philosophy Explorer wrote:

Dalek Prime wrote:Purpose? It is the end of a process. Your telomeres are wearing down, and one looks old because the body can no longer rebuild as it once did eg. collagen, other proteins, bones, etc.

Does this fit in with TOE? (the theory of evolution) or does it run counter to it?

PhilX

I would suppose it fits in with evolution, as long-lived animals breed at a slower pace, in general. If it takes x number of generations to evolve, that period of x generations would then take more time to evolve. So it's good that we are culled in this way, if we are to evolve. "Immortals" wouldn't evolve. They'd just be. That's my take, anyways.

Addendum: Not that I could give a flying rat's arse about evolution. Mainly because I'm getting off this bus, genetically.

Does life have a purpose? Does evolution? If so, and you can identify them, then I can put aging into those perspectives.

You haven't actually defined "old age", for that matter. Does it exist? Time passes; components suffer material-fatigue; wear and tear from use and damage from encounters accumulate. A machine needs repair, until the repairs become more costly than replacement. For an organism, it becomes increasingly energy-consuming to make repairs and counter entropy. How long this process takes varies with the life-form: for a mayfly, it can be hours; for a Galapagos tortoise, centuries.

What is the purpose of your question?

Dalek Prime wrote:

Philosophy Explorer wrote:

Dalek Prime wrote:Purpose? It is the end of a process. Your telomeres are wearing down, and one looks old because the body can no longer rebuild as it once did eg. collagen, other proteins, bones, etc.

Does this fit in with TOE? (the theory of evolution) or does it run counter to it?

PhilX

I would suppose it fits in with evolution, as long-lived animals breed at a slower pace, in general. If it takes x number of generations to evolve, that period of x generations would then take more time to evolve. So it's good that we are culled in this way, if we are to evolve. "Immortals" wouldn't evolve. They'd just be. That's my take, anyways.

Immortals would be anti-evolution, not that they would not believe in it, they would prevent it.

It's nature's way of telling you you should be dead.

Skip wrote:Does life have a purpose? Does evolution? If so, and you can identify them, then I can put aging into those perspectives.

You haven't actually defined "old age", for that matter. Does it exist? Time passes; components suffer material-fatigue; wear and tear from use and damage from encounters accumulate. A machine needs repair, until the repairs become more costly than replacement. For an organism, it becomes increasingly energy-consuming to make repairs and counter entropy. How long this process takes varies with the life-form: for a mayfly, it can be hours; for a Galapagos tortoise, centuries.

What is the purpose of your question?

Hi Skip,

I've heard it said from time to time that old age is a disease. I don't buy it as it doesn't seem logical and there are exceptions from nature (an outstanding example would be those sequoias from California that can live for thousands of years) so it seems natural to ask what would be the purpose of old age since it's predominant in the animal kingdom.

PhilX

thedoc wrote: Immortals would be anti-evolution, not that they would not believe in it, they would prevent it.

Absolutely. Hence the punishment of Prometheus.

It serves the selfish gene. (See Dawkins)
Old age is not about our parts wearing out, like a car. Use a car more,it gets older quicker. Use your body more (exercise ) it gets healthier.
They have located the area in our DNA that creates the ageing process. Old age and death makes space for our young and that facilitates adaptation.
We were programmed * to die.
* If you thought I was implying programmed by God. You may be a fanatic. We were programmed thru a natural process,evolution.

Double post.

Philosophy Explorer wrote: I've heard it said from time to time that old age is a disease. I don't buy it as it doesn't seem logical and there are exceptions from nature (an outstanding example would be those sequoias from California that can live for thousands of years) so it seems natural to ask what would be the purpose of old age since it's predominant in the animal kingdom.

PhilX

There is no such thing as old age. I don't know when a sequoia would find another sequoia no longer attractive, but they do grow older every day, just like the rest of us. Old trees usually die of insect damage or lightning strike rather than systems failure. There is a process of aging, which manifests in similar ways in similar species. The life-cycles of plants and animals vary in length, in speed of progress and in the phases through which they pass (larval, seed, dormant, reproductive, etc.) I also wouldn't say old age predominates in all of the animal kingdom(s), as so many species are prey to other species very early in their cycle (only one in a hundred frogs make it out of the tadpole phase, and then they're likely to be eaten by a heron long before they grow old.) while others suffer repeated injuries, parasite and bacterial infections and periods of privation, which all have a cumulative deleterious effect on the body.

If you want to know what is the purpose of inevitable death after a billion or so heartbeats (I know that's a very rough guide with plenty of exceptions), it would probably be to give the next genetic variant a chance, once we're no longer contributing DNA to the pool.

Philosophy Explorer wrote:Is it white hair and wrinkly skin? Seems like a new ball game thanks, in part, to technology. Is it a disease? (I don't think so as we die due to specific causes). How would we identify old age? Are there any benefits to it?

What is the purpose of old age?

PhilX

Sure, white hair and wrinkled skin - that may be a signifier, on the outside that is. Old age should be more about the inner wisdom and maturity, that goes with the external aging (like a hermit that has contemplated on life and has gained deeper knowledge about it). Everything flows into their 'selves', so at best, if well spent, it should be a benefit.