Philosophy Now Forum

This is a hot topic that won't go away anytime soon.

Some argue that it encroaches on a free marketplace. Others say it can cost jobs. Yet still others argue it can lead to more jobs (because more money is moving around creating more demand for goods and services).

There are many studies on this. And many factors. Here is an article that gives an overview to the current state of minimum wage laws in the US:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_ ... ted_States

PhilX

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Forget minimum wage laws. Lets create & apply more LIVING WAGE LAWS.

THAT is sound economics.



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Bill Wiltrack wrote:.


Forget minimum wage laws. Lets create & apply more LIVING WAGE LAWS.

THAT is sound economics.



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BW,

In the US we already have living wage laws under the category of welfare in every state.

PhilX

Consider a state of affairs where people did not get paid at all, just kept alive.
Who would buy the goods they are employed to make?

Laissez-faire capitalism is a process by which wealth is polarised. Owners and competition put downward pressure on wages, and upwards pressure on profit. The theoretical result is one fat cat owning everything with the everyone else fighting for the diminishing number of jobs.

Inequality is destructive to the economy, as without enough money at the bottom, there is no demand for goods.

It is the duty of governments to continually redress this inequity, and reverse the destructive effects of capitalism.

Possibly the worst case of inequality I can think of in the US is baseball's reserve clause where the players were treated like slave labor (no longer the case). One would expect in a competitive market, those types of situations wouldn't arise, but it doesn't always work out that way.

PhilX

Philosophy Explorer wrote:This is a hot topic that won't go away anytime soon.

Some argue that it encroaches on a free marketplace. Others say it can cost jobs. Yet still others argue it can lead to more jobs (because more money is moving around creating more demand for goods and services).

There are many studies on this. And many factors. Here is an article that gives an overview to the current state of minimum wage laws in the US:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_ ... ted_States

PhilX

The minimum wage is one of the worst ideas in regards to economics possible. Raise the wage here and the jobs go where the wage is lower, in this case manufacturing jobs that were in the US are now overseas because it has become cheaper to make it there and ship it here. The problem is that people here no longer have jobs and can't afford to buy the products that are being brought in. "People can't live on Minimum wage." of course not, the minimum wage or any entry level wage is not intended for people to live on. A worker gets a job at entry level wage, gets some experience and training and soon has a better wage that they can live on. That's the purpose of an entry level wage for an inexperienced worker, get started and work your way up. Only a stupid person thinks that a beginning, inexperienced worker should get a wage that's high enough to live on.

When the minimum wage is raised, everything goes up and everyone is right back where they were before, except that now some people are out of work. Lets say I have a job that is paying $2.00 over the minimum wage and the government decides to raise the minimum by $2.00. Now I'm back to working at minimum wage, and I want a raise. I was in that situation and the minimum wage went up and the boss came back and told us that because the minimum went up our wages had to go up to keep us ahead of it. I was lucky, I didn't have to ask.

thedoc wrote:

Philosophy Explorer wrote:This is a hot topic that won't go away anytime soon.

Some argue that it encroaches on a free marketplace. Others say it can cost jobs. Yet still others argue it can lead to more jobs (because more money is moving around creating more demand for goods and services).

There are many studies on this. And many factors. Here is an article that gives an overview to the current state of minimum wage laws in the US:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_ ... ted_States

PhilX

The minimum wage is one of the worst ideas in regards to economics possible. Raise the wage here and the jobs go where the wage is lower, in this case manufacturing jobs that were in the US are now overseas because it has become cheaper to make it there and ship it here. The problem is that people here no longer have jobs and can't afford to buy the products that are being brought in. "People can't live on Minimum wage." of course not, the minimum wage or any entry level wage is not intended for people to live on. A worker gets a job at entry level wage, gets some experience and training and soon has a better wage that they can live on. That's the purpose of an entry level wage for an inexperienced worker, get started and work your way up. Only a stupid person thinks that a beginning, inexperienced worker should get a wage that's high enough to live on.

Hi Doc,

There are exceptions to what you just said, e.g. Dell which has sent jobs overseas, but saw problems develop with their customer service and decided to bring those jobs back. Moral: you get what you pay for.

PhilX

thedoc wrote: The minimum wage is one of the worst ideas in regards to economics possible. .

All the evidence suggests you are dead wrong.

thedoc wrote:When the minimum wage is raised, everything goes up and everyone is right back where they were before, except that now some people are out of work. Lets say I have a job that is paying $2.00 over the minimum wage and the government decides to raise the minimum by $2.00. Now I'm back to working at minimum wage, and I want a raise. I was in that situation and the minimum wage went up and the boss came back and told us that because the minimum went up our wages had to go up to keep us ahead of it. I was lucky, I didn't have to ask.

Not true either.

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

thedoc wrote:When the minimum wage is raised, everything goes up and everyone is right back where they were before, except that now some people are out of work. Lets say I have a job that is paying $2.00 over the minimum wage and the government decides to raise the minimum by $2.00. Now I'm back to working at minimum wage, and I want a raise. I was in that situation and the minimum wage went up and the boss came back and told us that because the minimum went up our wages had to go up to keep us ahead of it. I was lucky, I didn't have to ask.

Not true either.

You could try working in the US, I did and this is exactly what happened.

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

thedoc wrote: The minimum wage is one of the worst ideas in regards to economics possible. .

All the evidence suggests you are dead wrong.

Only according to the liberal politicians who want to take care of you from cradle to grave, as long as you vote for them. Change your vote or registration and you're out in the cold.

thedoc wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

thedoc wrote:When the minimum wage is raised, everything goes up and everyone is right back where they were before, except that now some people are out of work. Lets say I have a job that is paying $2.00 over the minimum wage and the government decides to raise the minimum by $2.00. Now I'm back to working at minimum wage, and I want a raise. I was in that situation and the minimum wage went up and the boss came back and told us that because the minimum went up our wages had to go up to keep us ahead of it. I was lucky, I didn't have to ask.

Not true either.

You could try working in the US, I did and this is exactly what happened.

the evidence shows the contrary.

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

thedoc wrote: You could try working in the US, I did and this is exactly what happened.

the evidence shows the contrary.

I don't know how socialism is working in England, but it isn't working in the US. I can only tell you my experience and I totally object to any minimum wage.

Hobbes' Choice wrote:Consider a state of affairs where people did not get paid at all, just kept alive.
Who would buy the goods they are employed to make?

Laissez-faire capitalism is a process by which wealth is polarised. Owners and competition put downward pressure on wages, and upwards pressure on profit. The theoretical result is one fat cat owning everything with the everyone else fighting for the diminishing number of jobs.

Inequality is destructive to the economy, as without enough money at the bottom, there is no demand for goods.

It is the duty of governments to continually redress this inequity, and reverse the destructive effects of capitalism.

Except that this is totally false. There is competition, dumbass, for both the worker and the seller of goods. Who the fuck let you in here?