Philosophy Now Forum

Our moral values (thoughts) of good and bad cannot define anything else in life as being good or bad and I am going to explain why. I am gong to give an example below:

Since all atoms and particles are separate from the atoms and particles of our pleasure, then to say that harming someone in order to give you pleasure makes your pleasure bad, this would be false because the combined atoms and particles of the person suffering and the combined atoms and particles of our thoughts of good and bad as well as other things do not have the same properties of the combined atoms and particles as a whole that make up our pleasure. It would be no different than saying that, since the combined atoms and particles of a piece of metal possess a certain function and properties (which, in this case, we would call "bad"), then that also makes the combined atoms and particles of other materials the same as well (that this also makes them "bad") which is false. Therefore, our morals (thoughts) cannot define anything else in life including our own attitudes and actions as being anything good or bad since the combined functioning of atoms and particles that make up our moral thoughts have different function and different properties.

MozartLink wrote:Our moral values (thoughts) of good and bad cannot define anything else in life as being good or bad and I am going to explain why. I am gong to give an example below:

Since all atoms and particles are separate from the atoms and particles of our pleasure, then to say that harming someone in order to give you pleasure makes your pleasure bad, this would be false because the combined atoms and particles of the person suffering and the combined atoms and particles of our thoughts of good and bad as well as other things do not have the same properties of the combined atoms and particles as a whole that make up our pleasure. It would be no different than saying that, since the combined atoms and particles of a piece of metal possess a certain function and properties (which, in this case, we would call "bad"), then that also makes the combined atoms and particles of other materials the same as well (that this also makes them "bad") which is false. Therefore, our morals (thoughts) cannot define anything else in life including our own attitudes and actions as being anything good or bad since the combined functioning of atoms and particles that make up our moral thoughts have different function and different properties.

Well that didn't take long, there are no atoms or particles of pleasure so the rest of the argument falls apart. That's as bad as someone talking about molecules of heat or cold, they're nonexistent. Atoms and particles are physical substance, pleasure and thought are insubstantial, not substance.

thedoc wrote:

MozartLink wrote:Our moral values (thoughts) of good and bad cannot define anything else in life as being good or bad and I am going to explain why. I am gong to give an example below:

Since all atoms and particles are separate from the atoms and particles of our pleasure, then to say that harming someone in order to give you pleasure makes your pleasure bad, this would be false because the combined atoms and particles of the person suffering and the combined atoms and particles of our thoughts of good and bad as well as other things do not have the same properties of the combined atoms and particles as a whole that make up our pleasure. It would be no different than saying that, since the combined atoms and particles of a piece of metal possess a certain function and properties (which, in this case, we would call "bad"), then that also makes the combined atoms and particles of other materials the same as well (that this also makes them "bad") which is false. Therefore, our morals (thoughts) cannot define anything else in life including our own attitudes and actions as being anything good or bad since the combined functioning of atoms and particles that make up our moral thoughts have different function and different properties.

Well that didn't take long, there are no atoms or particles of pleasure so the rest of the argument falls apart. That's as bad as someone talking about molecules of heat or cold, they're nonexistent. Atoms and particles are physical substance, pleasure and thought are insubstantial, not substance.

Everything in this universe is the functioning of atoms and particles. There is no such thing as anything supernatural (such as insubstantial things).

Completely retarded thread! Molecules has nothing to do with morality! Please stop posting here as what you say are completely waste of bandwidth here!

MozartLink wrote:

thedoc wrote: Well that didn't take long, there are no atoms or particles of pleasure so the rest of the argument falls apart. That's as bad as someone talking about molecules of heat or cold, they're nonexistent. Atoms and particles are physical substance, pleasure and thought are insubstantial, not substance.

Everything in this universe is the functioning of atoms and particles. There is no such thing as anything supernatural (such as insubstantial things).

Functioning is not substance, I did not invoke the supernatural, so we can leave that out of the discussion. But pleasure and thought are the result of the function of physical substance (atoms and particles) they are not substance themselves. The same can apply to feelings and emotions, Insubstantial, not physical themselves but the result of the actions and functions of physical substance.

thedoc wrote:

MozartLink wrote:

thedoc wrote: Well that didn't take long, there are no atoms or particles of pleasure so the rest of the argument falls apart. That's as bad as someone talking about molecules of heat or cold, they're nonexistent. Atoms and particles are physical substance, pleasure and thought are insubstantial, not substance.

Everything in this universe is the functioning of atoms and particles. There is no such thing as anything supernatural (such as insubstantial things).

Functioning is not substance, I did not invoke the supernatural, so we can leave that out of the discussion. But pleasure and thought are the result of the function of physical substance (atoms and particles) they are not substance themselves. The same can apply to feelings and emotions, Insubstantial, not physical themselves but the result of the actions and functions of physical substance.

But how is that even possible though? How can you have something that exists, but isn't made of anything? It's as though you are separating the brain from the mind and saying that the functioning of the atoms and particles in our brains results in a separate entity. If this entity isn't made of anything that exists in this universe, then it would have to be something supernatural.

MozartLink wrote: But how is that even possible though? How can you have something that exists, but isn't made of anything? It's as though you are separating the brain from the mind and saying that the functioning of the atoms and particles in our brains results in a separate entity. If this entity isn't made of anything that exists in this universe, then it would have to be something supernatural.

I don't think there is anyone who will argue that movement is supernatural, and even though it is physical particles that are moving, there is no substance to the movement itself. Physical substance moves and forces make them move, but there is nothing substantial to the movement itself apart from that which is moving.

Nothing is true. Never has been, science has never claimed that and nor should you.

Morality is not a thing that is true or false.
It's a body of advise and rules on the norms of human behaviour. It is culturally specific, and open to a range of interpretations.
It's not comparable to science in any sense.

thedoc wrote:

MozartLink wrote: But how is that even possible though? How can you have something that exists, but isn't made of anything? It's as though you are separating the brain from the mind and saying that the functioning of the atoms and particles in our brains results in a separate entity. If this entity isn't made of anything that exists in this universe, then it would have to be something supernatural.

I don't think there is anyone who will argue that movement is supernatural, and even though it is physical particles that are moving, there is no substance to the movement itself. Physical substance moves and forces make them move, but there is nothing substantial to the movement itself apart from that which is moving.

I'm having a hard time trying to grasp how that can be possible. Wouldn't the movement not be a separate entity at all and that it is the function of atoms and particles?

MozartLink wrote:

thedoc wrote:

MozartLink wrote: But how is that even possible though? How can you have something that exists, but isn't made of anything? It's as though you are separating the brain from the mind and saying that the functioning of the atoms and particles in our brains results in a separate entity. If this entity isn't made of anything that exists in this universe, then it would have to be something supernatural.

I don't think there is anyone who will argue that movement is supernatural, and even though it is physical particles that are moving, there is no substance to the movement itself. Physical substance moves and forces make them move, but there is nothing substantial to the movement itself apart from that which is moving.

I'm having a hard time trying to grasp how that can be possible. Wouldn't the movement not be a separate entity at all and that it is the function of atoms and particles?

A physical object and it's function are co-dependent and cannot be independent. You have the object and a description of the functioning of that object, even if the object is stationary. Being motionless has no physical manifestation itself, it is immaterial but not supernatural.

MozartLink wrote:Our moral values (thoughts) of good and bad cannot define anything else in life as being good or bad and I am going to explain why. I am gong to give an example below:

Since all atoms and particles are separate from the atoms and particles of our pleasure, then to say that harming someone in order to give you pleasure makes your pleasure bad, this would be false because the combined atoms and particles of the person suffering and the combined atoms and particles of our thoughts of good and bad as well as other things do not have the same properties of the combined atoms and particles as a whole that make up our pleasure. It would be no different than saying that, since the combined atoms and particles of a piece of metal possess a certain function and properties (which, in this case, we would call "bad"), then that also makes the combined atoms and particles of other materials the same as well (that this also makes them "bad") which is false. Therefore, our morals (thoughts) cannot define anything else in life including our own attitudes and actions as being anything good or bad since the combined functioning of atoms and particles that make up our moral thoughts have different function and different properties.

OK, you finally sold me. It would certainly be our "pleasure," if you put a loaded gun in your mouth, live ammunition, safety off, and pulled the trigger. The amount of pleasure we'll know is immeasurable, please do so now!

NO, NO, NO! I'M JUST JERKING YOUR CHAIN. DON'T HURT YOURSELF! WE DON'T BELIEVE IN ANY OF THIS INSANE CRAP. YOU, TRYING TO JUSTIFY HURTING SOMEONE. COME ON, REALLY? WE THINK YOU'RE SICK! YOU NEED HELP! CALL A LOCAL HOSPITAL, ASK FOR THE MENTAL HEALTH DEPARTMENT, THEN GIVE THEM YOUR REAL ADDRESS, AND PHONE NUMBER, AND ASK THEM WHAT YOU'RE ASKING US. I'M SURE THEY'LL TELL YOU WHAT YOU NEED TO HEAR, UNTIL THE MEN IN THE WHITE COATS COME KNOCKING AT YOUR DOOR. THEY'LL HAVE A VERY SPECIAL JACKET FOR YOU, WITH EXTREMELY LONG ARMS, THEY'LL SLIP IN ON FROM THE FRONT, THEN BUCKLE IT IN THE BACK, FINALLY TYING OFF THOSE LONG ARMS ALSO IN THE BACK. DON'T WORRY THOUGH, THEY'LL JUST TAKE YOU TO A PLACE WHERE OTHERS BELIEVE AS YOU DO. THINK OF THE FUN YOU'LL HAVE, PLAYING WITH LIKE MINDED PLEASURE DRONES.

You'll never get any of us to buy into your delusions. FYI: The only life anyone has the right to fuck with in any painful way, is their own, that way they can know why it is that others don't like it. Hey and if you like inflicting pain on yourself, it's a win/win, you can experience the pleasure of hurting you, how perfect is that?

You got him to buy yours, who are you that is so wise n the ways of defiance?

Jeez do you ever listen to yourself from oh high. Must be annoying to hear that.