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The French Question
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:50 am
by spike
I am a bit surprised that nobody has mentioned the shootings in Paris, at the offices of Charlie Hebdo.
I am thinking that this has more to do with the French identity than it has to do with the idea of free speech, as touted by the media and liberal establishment.
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:24 pm
by henry quirk
"I am a bit surprised that nobody has mentioned the shootings in Paris"
Insofar as I can tell: nutjobs (Islamic fundamentalists) killed folks who poked fun at their Scared Cow (Moohamed).
No different than schizophrenics killin' folks for having the wrong wallpaper.
I'm not seein' the need for elaborate commentary on the subject.
Mebbe other folks here are thinkin' the same.
Re: The French Question
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:17 pm
by Melchior
spike wrote:I am a bit surprised that nobody has mentioned the shootings in Paris, at the offices of Charlie Hebdo.
I am thinking that this has more to do with the French identity than it has to do with the idea of free speech, as touted by the media and liberal establishment.
Muslims are psychotic morons.
Re: The French Question
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:52 pm
by Bill Wiltrack
.
Islam is a beautiful religion. As it is it is still only a religion.
And, like Christianity, has it's share of psychotics. At times, violent psychotics.
.
Re: The French Question
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 6:53 pm
by tbieter
The attack on Charlie Hebdo raises the following questions:
Does satire have any limits? Or is irreverence as a policy unlimited?
Are there certain ideas that are entitled to reverence, such as justice, truth, the rule of law, or nonviolence?
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=14431&hilit=reverence
Re: The French Question
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 7:11 pm
by tbieter
tbieter wrote:The attack on Charlie Hebdo raises the following questions:
Does satire have any limits? Or is irreverence as a policy unlimited?
Are there certain ideas that are entitled to reverence, such as justice, truth, the rule of law, or nonviolence?
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=14431&hilit=reverence
"The French like their satire," said Jean-Marie Charon, a sociologist who studies the news media. "The idea is to be irreverent, that irony and criticism are good things. But it is true that this is perhaps not part of everybody's culture." (Emphasis added)
http://www.twincities.com/News/National ... d-violence
“In the realm of art and ideas, pretty much nothing is, or should be, sacred, lest we head down the slippery slope to censorship, or self-censorship” Charles Lane, Washington Post, Jan. 9, 2015 (Emphasis added)
http://www.twincities.com/columnists/ci ... rs-freedom
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 7:56 pm
by henry quirk
"Does satire have any limits?"
No. Every-thing and -one is fair game.
#
"Are there certain ideas that are entitled to reverence, such as justice, truth, the rule of law, or nonviolence?"
Again: no.
Here the thing: no matter what you do, you're gonna piss folks off.
Most of the time, the folks you piss off aren't nutjobs...but, sometime they are.
Do as you like, but always (be prepared to) self-defend.
So, if the (now dead) folks at the CH are guilty of anything, it's not being ready to self-defend.
Bottom line: if you're gonna poke at the hornet's nest, have a flamethrower on hand to burn the fuckers when they swarm.
Re:
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 8:05 pm
by tbieter
henry quirk wrote:"Does satire have any limits?"
No. Every-thing and -one is fair game.
#
"Are there certain ideas that are entitled to reverence, such as justice, truth, the rule of law, or nonviolence?"
Again: no. So the violent attack by the attackers in support of their religion was morally justified. That is your position?
Here the thing: no matter what you do, you're gonna piss folks off.
Most of the time, the folks you piss off aren't nutjobs...but, sometime they are.
Do as you like, but always (be prepared to) self-defend.
So, if the (now dead) folks at the CH are guilty of anything, it's not being ready to self-defend.
Bottom line: if you're gonna poke at the hornet's nest, have a flamethrower on hand to burn the fuckers when they swarm.
Re: The French Question
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 8:12 pm
by henry quirk
"So the violent attack by the attackers in support of their religion was morally justified. That is your position?"
No, cuz morality (like reverence) is horseshit.
The CH folks were free to do as they liked. They simply needed to have that flamethrower on hand.
The Islamists were free to do as they liked. They're both dead now, as I understand it.
All that matters here, all that any one really needs to take away from this: every choice has a consequence.
Make your choices; navigate the consequences (with a flamethrower).
Re: The French Question
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 8:36 pm
by tbieter
henry quirk wrote:"So the violent attack by the attackers in support of their religion was morally justified. That is your position?"
No, cuz morality (like reverence) is horseshit.
The CH folks were free to do as they liked. They simply needed to have that flamethrower on hand.
The Islamists were free to do as they liked. They're both dead now, as I understand it.
All that matters here, all that any one really needs to take away from this: every choice has a consequence.
Make your choices; navigate the consequences (with a flamethrower).
So, ideologically, you are a nihilist? Correct?
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 8:40 pm
by henry quirk
The universe is amoral; I act (not react) accordingly: what does that make me?
Re: The French Question
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 8:50 pm
by WanderingLands
Re:
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 9:12 pm
by tbieter
henry quirk wrote:The universe is amoral; I act (not react) accordingly: what does that make me?
Just matter.
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 9:14 pm
by henry quirk
See, I thought it made me a realist (sane and self-directed).
But: as you like.
Re: The French Question
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 9:31 pm
by HexHammer
These painters was kinda fanatical, stubbonly standing firm on their right to freedom of expression, fanatical terrorists doesn't care about such thing. Instead they should have waited till the time is right, they knew how violently people reacted to the drawings that Jyllands-Posted published.
They got it coming.