Philosophy Now Forum

Some people say that everything that can exist does exist in this universe. Some people say that perfection can't exist in this universe. I feel that since I can conceive of it, then it can exist.

What do you think?

PhilX

What's your conception of "perfection"?

Chickin for dinner.

Agreed - to elaborate, I'd say perfect in the abstract, ideal (as in ideas) way and perfecting (to be aligned with change) in the concrete, physical way which we call earth.

Philosophy Explorer wrote:Some people say that everything that can exist does exist in this universe. Some people say that perfection can't exist in this universe. I feel that since I can conceive of it, then it can exist.

What do you think?

PhilX

Whether of not there is perfection in the universe has got bugger all to do with whether or not you think such a thing is meaningful.
The universe does not dance to your tune.
SInce the universe exists in exactly the way it does, then it is as perfect as it can possibly be, there being no other way it can exist.

From a human perspective, it is not the best universe it could be: there is no theodicy. It's not all for the best, in the best of all possible worlds. We can imagine a state that is better. That is why we act as we do.

Arising_uk wrote:What's your conception of "perfection"?

My conception of perfection is any system that I know to be internally consistent and can't be improved upon that can be put to (my) use. This selfish definition does apply to my sales system that, logically, can't be improved upon (I still need a better understanding on how the human brain works for which I have a partial explanation or guess).

PhilX

Philosophy Explorer wrote:I feel that since I can conceive of it, then it can exist.

What do you think?

PhilX

I agree with your definition of perfection.
If I can conceive of a unicorn, then can that exist? I suppose it is possible for horses to biologically evolve (maybe millions of years from now?) to grow wings. So I guess the question then becomes when will unicorns (or perfection) exist?

Philosophy Explorer wrote:

Arising_uk wrote:What's your conception of "perfection"?

My conception of perfection is any system that I know to be internally consistent and can't be improved upon that can be put to (my) use. ...
PhilX

It's called Logic and is the one thing that Philosophy can call its own.

Arising_uk wrote:

Arising_uk wrote:What's your conception of "perfection"?

It's called Logic and is the one thing that Philosophy can call its own.

Are you saying "perfection" is called Logic... or "the conception of perfection" is called Logic ?

Which one of these, (if this are the choices), is the "one thing that Philosophy can call its own" ?

... and while I'm at this game of '50 questions', where do you place "reasoning" into this ?

TY, A_UK.

Helplessly retarded topic!

mtmynd1 wrote:Are you saying "perfection" is called Logic... or "the conception of perfection" is called Logic ?

No, I'm saying that Logic fits the definition that PhilX gave in answer to my question.

Which one of these, (if this are the choices), is the "one thing that Philosophy can call its own" ?

Neither, the recognition that Logic exists and the formalising of it is the one thing that Philosophy can call its own.

... and while I'm at this game of '50 questions', where do you place "reasoning" into this ?

Which type?

Arising_uk wrote:Which type?

The reasonable type.

mtmynd1 wrote:The reasonable type.

http://changingminds.org/disciplines/ar ... soning.htm
All pretty reasonable, apart from the butterfly one I think. So which one are you talking about?

Arising_uk wrote: All pretty reasonable, apart from the butterfly one I think. So which one are you talking about?

Are you an authority on each of these ? I notice on this list that every one uses an adjective before the word, reason. This tells me there is a commonality that brings these under the same banner of "reason".

That being said, lets stick to the first definition given in "dictionary.com" which states :
a basis or cause, as for some belief, action, fact, event, etc and go from there. If you would prefer another definition, please use that.

Do you place "reason" within the "one thing that Philosophy can call its own," or would that be an area of reasoning that one may find on the provided list? Or is logic and reason both studies that belong to all should they want them?

BTW: how did the original topic, "Does perfection exist in this universe?" degenerate into this..?

Philosophy Explorer wrote:Does perfection exist in this universe?

Perhaps the logic of mathematics is perfection.