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how to overcome nihilism ?
Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 1:12 pm
by internetking001
I'm a fan of Nietzsche. I really like him, but I don't think he provided a clear argument against nihilism (for those with materialist / physicalist outlook on life and existence).
From reading his stuff and watching online lectures, I realise the best argument against nihilism is to idealise and work towards developing a temporal true world (e.g. utopian society, planetary civilisation). This is the only option for anyone with a materialist / physicalist outlook on life and existence. Becoming the uberman (Übermensch) can really help with creating a temporal true world (e.g. utopian society, planetary civilisation). When someone is self-actualised (become the uberman), s/he is more productive, capable, strong and consequently contribute more to the human race.
My confusion is about nihilism. How can someone with a physicalist on life overcome nihilism ?
I don’t feel optimistic about creating a temporal true world (e.g. utopian society, planetary civilisation). Even if we create a temporal true world, I don’t think it will exist forever. The human race cannot outlive the universe’s existence. Even if we do, whats the point ? Being immortal and existing forever (infinitely) and traveling to multiple universes also sounds good, but then what ?
I’m confused and don't see why nihilism is such a bad philosophy to live by.
Thank you.
Re: how to overcome nihilism ?
Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:38 pm
by Impenitent
internetking001 wrote:I'm a fan of Nietzsche. I really like him, but I don't think he provided a clear argument against nihilism (for those with materialist / physicalist outlook on life and existence).
From reading his stuff and watching online lectures, I realise the best argument against nihilism is to idealise and work towards developing a temporal true world (e.g. utopian society, planetary civilisation).
Actually, Nietzsche held communists and Christians in the same contempt...
This is the only option for anyone with a materialist / physicalist outlook on life and existence. Becoming the uberman (Übermensch) can really help with creating a temporal true world (e.g. utopian society, planetary civilisation). When someone is self-actualised (become the uberman), s/he is more productive, capable, strong and consequently contribute more to the human race.
this is exactly the opposite of Nietzsche's point
My confusion is about nihilism. How can someone with a physicalist on life overcome nihilism ?
I don’t feel optimistic about creating a temporal true world (e.g. utopian society, planetary civilisation). Even if we create a temporal true world, I don’t think it will exist forever. The human race cannot outlive the universe’s existence. Even if we do, whats the point ? Being immortal and existing forever (infinitely) and traveling to multiple universes also sounds good, but then what ?
exactly.
I’m confused and don't see why nihilism is such a bad philosophy to live by.
Thank you.
living the life of everyone else is just as empty...
-Imp
Re: how to overcome nihilism ?
Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:11 pm
by Wyman
Nihilisim is the group of logical consequences derived from there being no Truth with a capital T - or God, or hippy dippy 'spirituality' or anything like it. It is not a philosophy to live by. It is negative. Nietzsche was at his best as a negative thinker, destroying anything in his path by examining every moral concept from previously un-thought of perspectives, rather than the 'frog' perspectives of normal thinkers.
But he was a profoundly sickly man as well. He was the opposite of the strong, virile hero type - the Homeric hero, for instance, which he studied as a young man. He failed with women, he was wracked with painful ailments, knew he was dying, losing his mind, alone.
He was a self-hater and idolized his opposite - the super man. His positive philosophy, if you call it that, is no better grounded then the ones he criticized. It is grounded in his own, personal self loathing as much as Kant's was grounded in his own personal self-aggrandizing (Kant was notoriously stoical; to Nietzsche, this meant Kant was able to overcome his passions and desires - tyrannize them - and Kant's moral philosophy told others to similarly obey, obey, obey the duties imposed on them).
In short, one needs faith by which to live, not logic without a faith to ground it. Nihilism provides no such grounding.
Re: how to overcome nihilism ?
Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:20 pm
by The Voice of Time
I don't understand the problem... why would physicalism have a problem of turning into nihilism?
I can tell you one thing about the physical world that gives objective meaning: patterns. And in particular, such patterns as are found in Game Theory and so forth.
There is objective meaning because there are cases of common interests, and there are cases where people have interests of having common interests. Those interests gives life an aura of meaning, in the sense that the interest is related to what life has to offer and out of it we get reasons to do things and reasons to do things together, we get "best ways" and "better" and "worse" ways, and this in turn gives rise to rationalism. With common interests we can have common rationalizations and from that we can have objective meaning.
Re: how to overcome nihilism ?
Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:34 am
by Ansiktsburk
internetking001 wrote:I'm a fan of Nietzsche. I really like him, but I don't think he provided a clear argument against nihilism (for those with materialist / physicalist outlook on life and existence).
From reading his stuff and watching online lectures, I realise the best argument against nihilism is to idealise and work towards developing a temporal true world ...
My confusion is about nihilism. How can someone with a physicalist on life overcome nihilism ? ....
Thank you.
The Voice of Time wrote:I don't understand the problem... why would physicalism have a problem of turning into nihilism?
I can tell you one thing about the physical world that gives objective meaning: patterns. And in particular, such patterns as are found in Game Theory and so forth.
There is objective meaning because there are cases of common interests, and there are cases where people have interests of having common interests. Those interests gives life an aura of meaning, in the sense that the interest is related to what life has to offer and out of it we get reasons to do things and reasons to do things together, we get "best ways" and "better" and "worse" ways, and this in turn gives rise to rationalism. With common interests we can have common rationalizations and from that we can have objective meaning.
I think the key word in the OP is "towards". I think I understand the concern about physical vs human world, where the physical world is, seemingly, deterministic, whereas the world of the humans doesn't behave in the orderly manner of the laws of physics. You will never know where the state of affairs end up, unless that 500-km-asteroid finally arrives.
So we strive on, regardlessly of what old Schopie and others were saying. We don't know where we'll end up, but we set a direction and work towards it. And for me - everything "big good" that has happened in my life has been a result of something that myself or my parents have done. Big bads just turn up, but "manna from heaven", well, I haven't experienced it yet. And generally, that's how it is. The "big good" things are result of what people actually have done. The mean lifetime of mankind has increased. And that's not by chance.
Re: how to overcome nihilism ?
Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:04 pm
by The Voice of Time
Not everything is uncertain, most of the things we do in our daily life seems to be quite dependable. Even if it doesn't happen the exact same way, the significant aspects happen sufficiently in the same manner.
There's also the balance of probability: if something is unreliable, you can believe in balance of probability if you truly desire to seek out the phenomenon. If you are content with only the most certain, you should rely on that instead. Either way you should find something that suits you.
from an indifferent atheist...
Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:23 pm
by henry quirk
"how to overcome nihilism?"
Grow up.
The world is amoral and meaningless...boo hoo.
Grow up...make your own meaning, craft your own purpose.
Re: from an indifferent atheist...
Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:51 pm
by Wyman
henry quirk wrote:"how to overcome nihilism?"
Grow up.
The world is amoral and meaningless...boo hoo.
Grow up...make your own meaning, craft your own purpose.
And, when you find your own meaning, don't try to tell other people what to do.
Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:01 pm
by henry quirk
"...when you find your own meaning, don't try to tell other people what to do..."
...till they ask for advice...
