Philosophy Now Forum

"Grandpa, Grandpa."

Grandpa: "Now what is...er, yes, what is it?"

Grandson: "My teacher got me all confused about gravity."

Grandpa: "How did he manage that?"

Grandson: "He just couldn't make up his mind. First he said it might be a wave, then he said it might be a particle, then he said it's actually from the bending of space."

Grandpa: "Yes, go on."

Grandson: "Then my classmate, Geordie Ross, said that gravity is the weakest of the four fundamental forces of nature and that it may be due to being leaked into the fifth dimension which the teacher said is unproven."

Grandson: "They say with light, it may be a wave or a particle depending on the experiment, but if you weren't looking at light, then what would its nature be? And the same question for gravity."

Grandpa: "You know Grandson, you should ask your teacher those questions because that's what he gets paid to do."

Would anybody like to give Grandpa a hand with the mysterious gravity?

I must say, PhilX, you do give the impression of being a Philosophy Package Tourist, rather than explorer. A few of us have been having precisely that discussion.
I think everyone agrees that there is a force that has been very precisely measured (at least within the solar system), but no one knows what causes it, or even if it has a cause. Long story short: the physics isn't in dispute; it's the metaphysics we can't agree on.

Philosophy Explorer wrote:"Grandpa, Grandpa."

Grandpa: "Now what is...er, yes, what is it?"

Grandson: "My teacher got me all confused about gravity."

Grandpa: "How did he manage that?"

Grandson: "He just couldn't make up his mind. First he said it might be a wave, then he said it might be a particle, then he said it's actually from the bending of space."

Grandpa: "Yes, go on."

Grandson: "Then my classmate, Geordie Ross, said that gravity is the weakest of the four fundamental forces of nature and that it may be due to being leaked into the fifth dimension which the teacher said is unproven."

Grandson: "They say with light, it may be a wave or a particle depending on the experiment, but if you weren't looking at light, then what would its nature be? And the same question for gravity."

Grandpa: "You know Grandson, you should ask your teacher those questions because that's what he gets paid to do."

Would anybody like to give Grandpa a hand with the mysterious gravity?

The problem with gravity is that gravity is simply an abstract mathematical concept and not so much of an actualized force in the universe (compare it with the magnetism, electromagnetism, electricity, plasma, etc). I believe that it's these actualized forces that can probably explain the forces in the world much better than gravity, and also since even today it's still not known about gravity at all the concept should probably be scrapped.

WanderingLands wrote:

Philosophy Explorer wrote:"Grandpa, Grandpa."

Grandpa: "Now what is...er, yes, what is it?"

Grandson: "My teacher got me all confused about gravity."

Grandpa: "How did he manage that?"

Grandson: "He just couldn't make up his mind. First he said it might be a wave, then he said it might be a particle, then he said it's actually from the bending of space."

Grandpa: "Yes, go on."

Grandson: "Then my classmate, Geordie Ross, said that gravity is the weakest of the four fundamental forces of nature and that it may be due to being leaked into the fifth dimension which the teacher said is unproven."

Grandson: "They say with light, it may be a wave or a particle depending on the experiment, but if you weren't looking at light, then what would its nature be? And the same question for gravity."

Grandpa: "You know Grandson, you should ask your teacher those questions because that's what he gets paid to do."

Would anybody like to give Grandpa a hand with the mysterious gravity?

The problem with gravity is that gravity is simply an abstract mathematical concept and not so much of an actualized force in the universe (compare it with the magnetism, electromagnetism, electricity, plasma, etc). I believe that it's these actualized forces that can probably explain the forces in the world much better than gravity, and also since even today it's still not known about gravity at all the concept should probably be scrapped.

I'm a bit confused about actualized forces. When one body is presumably attracted to another, other than Newton's/Einstein's explanations, how do you account for the phenomenon?

PhilX

You're confused because he just made it up.

WanderingLands, what do you think we know about magnetism that we don't know about gravity?

uwot wrote:WanderingLands, what do you think we know about magnetism that we don't know about gravity?

What I do know about magnetism is that magnetism actually has four poles other than one; two centrifugal and two centripetal. There's a person on YouTube named 'Theoria Apophasis' who has done a large series on magnetism showing this (about 89 videos). He's the same person who also published 'Uncovering the Missing Secrets of Magnetism', which you can search on the Archive website.

http://www.youtube.com/user/kathodosdotcom/videos

Magnetism, unlike Gravity, is an actual detectable force.

this is simples .gravity is caused by locality being inside a nonlocal hoste and it is this locality trying to resourse its self back to where it orginated in nonlocality that gives the gravitational effect.time and space are warped out of nonlocality to accomadate the locality.black holes are where locality and nolocality meet .

WanderingLands wrote:What I do know about magnetism is that magnetism actually has four poles other than one; two centrifugal and two centripetal. There's a person on YouTube named 'Theoria Apophasis' who has done a large series on magnetism showing this (about 89 videos). He's the same person who also published 'Uncovering the Missing Secrets of Magnetism', which you can search on the Archive website.

http://www.youtube.com/user/kathodosdotcom/videos

As you say, it is about 89 videos. The one in the top left corner happened to be number 89 on Dialectical inertia, part 2. I watched until the narrator/presenter waved a piece of neodymium over 6 slabs of bismuth. He reported that he could feel speed bumps when the neodymium was held at a particular angle, and potholes for another angle. If this is typical, then if we draw any conclusions, which you apparently do, we do so on the strength of someone's testimony. If the effect is real, it should not be difficult to construct an experiment that includes balances/scales that show the effect objectively. If you know of a video that shows such an experiment, it would be much more compelling. Even if that were the case, you would be in the same position as people from at least the time of Michael Faraday, who have measured the strength and shape of magnetic fields, objectively, with extremely precise balances/scales, not to mention the odd iron filing.
As with gravity, the physics is well understood: what the field strength is at any given point can be described mathematically, and when the force exerted by the field is measured it agrees. In neither case is the actual mechanism understood, if I understand Ginkgo correctly, he is among those that doesn't believe there is a mediating mechanism, there is just the force. In the video, you don't even have accurate measurements.

WanderingLands wrote:Magnetism, unlike Gravity, is an actual detectable force.

This is simply false. If you have a set of bathroom scales you can not only detect, but measure gravity by standing on them.

I know a lot about gravity and all I can say is it is not intelligent falling keeping things down. Intelligent Design, it's an oxymoron if ever you have seen one.

You're asking all the wrong questions as most ID proponents do. Ask from a logical point of view, and a scientific point of view, you might have a hope in hell of getting a logical answer, ask from the point of view of IDiots, all you will get is a numb nut reply geared to IDiots for IDiots.

Mind you I am a Pastafarian so I am biased, the lack of piracy is the problem as all right thinking people know.

“I think we can all look forward to the time when these three theories are given equal time in our science classrooms across the country, and eventually the world; One third time for Intelligent Design, one third time for Flying Spaghetti Monsterism, and one third time for logical conjecture based on overwhelming observable evidence.”
~ Bobby Henderson (pasta be upon him)

An alternate prayer, with slightly more Piratical influence:

Our Pasta, who "Arghh" in the colander, Swallowed be thy sauce. Thy serving come, Thy strands be wrung, On forks as they are on spoons. Give us this day our garlic bread, And forgive us our starchiness, As we swashbuckle, splice the main-brace and cuss, And lead us not into Kraft parmessan, But deliver us from Chef Boy-Ar-Dee, For thine are Meatballs, and the beer, and the strippers, for ever and ever. R'Amen.