Philosophy Now Forum

Raymond Tallis on maths’ unreasonable effectiveness.

http://philosophynow.org/issues/102/Mat ... nd_Reality

Very interesting and important article.

My view, which I will develop later, is that the mathematical and empirical are different orders or perhaps domains. How can this be shown? Well, the point about the mathematical order is that it is only perceptible to a rational intelligence. Only an intelligence that is capable of counting, comparing, and understanding rational inference is capable of grasping mathematical ideas. Nowadays because of the instinct to think of everything empirically (i.e. as an object of sense experience) it is also assumed that mathematical objects must exist, if they are to be considered real. However, again, they exist only for an intelligence capable of grasping them; that is, they exist as intelligible objects. So you might reply, well, where do such things exist? To which the answer is, in the intelligible realm. But such a realm is not something 'inside your head'; it is not simply an operation of thought. It is more that by rational reflection, we are able to understand them.

quotidian wrote:Well, the point about the mathematical order is that it is only perceptible to a rational intelligence. Only an intelligence that is capable of counting, comparing, and understanding rational inference is capable of grasping mathematical ideas. Nowadays because of the instinct to think of everything empirically (i.e. as an object of sense experience) it is also assumed that mathematical objects must exist, if they are to be considered real. However, again, they exist only for an intelligence capable of grasping them

So if I were incapable of counting up to eight, an octagonal building wouldn't exist for me?

if you believe in division, Zeno was correct...

but things move don't they?

-Imp

What a bag o' shite modern philosophers are now, at least actual Philosophers care.

Impenitent wrote:if you believe in division, Zeno was correct...

but things move don't they?

-Imp

The day you move off your high horse and start doing actually anything anyone would care about well it's the day anyone would care, you sad little mushroom.

Christ you are useless, I've seen more use in a fountain pen with no ink. It's like watching a **** factory churn out complete cuntwittery ad infinitum, and forever, you must know how little you actually do, and how lazy you actually are? You must know nothing you ever do will matter a damn to anyone ever, and yet you do it anyway. How do you get out of bed in the morning , seriosuly how does anyone who is this lazy and pointless even bother?

Impenitent wrote:if you believe in division, Zeno was correct...

but things move don't they?

-Imp

That's why calculus was invented.

Ginkgo wrote:

Impenitent wrote:if you believe in division, Zeno was correct...

but things move don't they?

-Imp

That's why calculus was invented.

even that is limited

-Imp

Reality is limited, maths is limited, science is limited by reality, it's not that hard a concept, if you want reality to be unlimited, write a fantasy, plenty of people have done that hell Stephen King, Semitic tribes since 1000 BC and possibly before, The Egyptians, Semitic non Jewish tribes aka Arabs, Tolkien, David Gemell, H.P.Lovecraft, Edgar Allan Poe, Terry Brookes, Gary Gygax, your political party you follow like some lap dog's manifesto at the next election, because hell douche, turd sandwhich I was born a douche/turd sandwich and I will die one before I learn to think for myself.

You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!?

Pretty sure someone said that once, forget the name, but he was probably spot on.

Thank God though imp was here to write a one word sentence that meant pretty much nothing, what would we do without people who were so lazy that writing more than 5 words was considered hard. Hatsoff what the world really needs is another lazy piece of shit, with no clue to write nothing in 5 or less words like anyone cares, instead of sparing the human race your indolent lack of reason and not posting at all. Fuck me why do you even bother it's not like anything you do means anything to anyone ever is it. I think that's it though isn't it you went half retard, and that wasn't enough, then you broke the rules and went full retard. Can I just say you never go full retard, that's crazy.

One has to be utterly stupid if one believes that math can lead the way to truth.

This is excatly why the IBM printcard was invented and later scrapped, because life was too abstract and random to cover by math.

It's almost impossible to make a computer have a random concersation, because constructing improviced sentences are nigh impossile, contrary a human.

So, this article only reflects the poor standard of this site, that tragicly doesn't promote any standard for mental aptitude other than very basic morals and ethics.

I agree with hex. That doesn't happen very often. Let's have a party.

HexHammer wrote:...
This is excatly why the IBM printcard was invented and later scrapped, because life was too abstract and random to cover by math.
...

What are you talking about? The IBM punched card was replaced because technology developed more useful mediums to store, input and calculate data with. Nothing whatever to do with life being abstract and random. You talk nonsense and babble.

Arising_uk wrote:

HexHammer wrote:...
This is excatly why the IBM printcard was invented and later scrapped, because life was too abstract and random to cover by math.
...

What are you talking about? The IBM punched card was replaced because technology developed more useful mediums to store, input and calculate data with. Nothing whatever to do with life being abstract and random. You talk nonsense and babble.

You are partially right, new tech took over to store data about humans, but the core feature of the "hull card" was to define human nature in a binary form.

HexHammer wrote:You are partially right, new tech took over to store data about humans, but the core feature of the "hull card" was to define human nature in a binary form.

Whats a 'hull card'? Do you mean 'hole'?

Such cards have been around since the Jacquard loom and were an obvious application to computation. Can you explain what you mean by this, 'define human nature in a binary form'?

I only have vague memories about it, it's been over 25 years since I learned about it, it's a tech from '65'ish, where you had these cards bit larger than a modern credit card, with lots of holes in it, defining which skills you had. Normally in modern times we grade people from a scale from 1-10, but back then it was binary.

it's still binary

computers are nothing but glorified boxes of sequential on and off switches...

-Imp