Philosophy Now Forum

* All that ever has mattered, matters now, and will matter in the future, is 'needs'
* 'need' is the conditions of the natural world supporting a structure as causal power, leading to the existence of this structure in moments of time
* the identity of 'needs' are found in the 'objects of need' which are sets of knowledge about the properties of some specific unique reference to some specific unique piece of totality (a collection like a category, or a thing, and so forth), the knowledge for which is acquired by processes giving a product that within certain limits can act as if it's the same information regardless of whom or what possesses this knowledge
* 'needing' is the process of structural decline in 'objects of need' as a cause of unexploited opportunities for utilizing abilities to perpetuate the 'object of need'
* 'Human need' is the expansion of need structures stemming from human affections, in which the human being obsessively attempts to perpetuate the objects of its affections

Feel free to criticise if you can.

The Voice of Time wrote:* All that ever has mattered, matters now, and will matter in the future, is 'needs'
* 'need' is the conditions of the natural world supporting a structure as causal power, leading to the existence of this structure in moments of time
* the identity of 'needs' are found in the 'objects of need' which are sets of knowledge about the properties of some specific unique reference to some specific unique piece of totality (a collection like a category, or a thing, and so forth), the knowledge for which is acquired by processes giving a product that within certain limits can act as if it's the same information regardless of whom or what possesses this knowledge
* 'needing' is the process of structural decline in 'objects of need' as a cause of unexploited opportunities for utilizing abilities to perpetuate the 'object of need'
* 'Human need' is the expansion of need structures stemming from human affections, in which the human being obsessively attempts to perpetuate the objects of its affections

Feel free to criticise if you can.

VoT

Needs?
" 'need' is the conditions of the natural world supporting a structure as causal power, leading to the existence of this structure in moments of time"
rubbish. you suggest if neeed could be withdrawn things would vanish.
you dont need that rock. yet earth does to maintain existence in process of time and mater. reality needs to be consistent. human needs are transitory states in minds of
half evolved apes .
" All that ever has mattered, matters now, and will matter in the future, is 'needs'"
its called existence

i'm disappointed . i thought you above such waffle

Hjarloprillar wrote:Needs?
" 'need' is the conditions of the natural world supporting a structure as causal power, leading to the existence of this structure in moments of time"
rubbish. you suggest if neeed could be withdrawn things would vanish.

Yes, things would vanish as a pattern, as a "something". Of course energy would still exist and so forth, but it wouldn't be that thing from which you robbed the needs of, as the conditions that provides the structure for it to be in the world, would also be removed.

Hjarloprillar wrote:you dont need that rock. yet earth does to maintain existence in process of time and matter.

The conditions for the existence of the Earth in any amount of time is not conditioned by a single piece of rock, so your argument is not valid for the conclusion it seems to make. However, take away too much of the Earth and it stops being the Earth at some point, but instead some remnant drift through space, in the same way that if you take away the engine and the shell of the car, you're not left with a car but with fragments.

The shell and the engine are necessary for you to recognize it as a car, so the they are conditions in some sense (though I presume that you could call it a car if just one of the pieces were there, because it'd be so close to a full car).

The same is true for processes as well as more rigidly put together objects. If you remove the oil from the sausage frying, you are not frying the sausage but turning it into coal xD You need the oil, in other words (or butter... some kind of substance that can do the job).

Hjarloprillar wrote: "All that ever has mattered, matters now, and will matter in the future, is 'needs'"

its called existence

Existence (in the sense of existentialism) does not matter, as soon as needs are removed from the equation you are left with nothingness, a completely nonsensical train of thought, with no substantial meaning or weighty implication. Needs precede "existentialism". But yes, the existence in any moment of time is one of the things talked about here, however, existence is a rather empty word, and needs as I defined is not, but instead a vast web of relations that makes out the only things that matter, have and will matter.