Philosophy Now Forum

Here is my take on this variation of the "would you lie to safeguard Jews from the Nazis" ethical dilemma, if you were in Iran at the time of the hostage incident and a couple more Americans who were actually hostages had instead gotten away (as in Kate Koob, William Royer, Barry Rosen, et al) for they actually WEREN'T at the American embassy at the time and you were hiding them, if you were Canadian, you could hopefully pass the group onto Messrs Taylor and Sheardown (Canada's then embassy officials at the time) and PROBLEM SOLVED for you wouldn't have to ask the Iranian authorities "Americans? What Americans?" in terms of pleading ignorance, but you would have to have the then Canadian embassy officials see what they could do in "slipping" you out of Iran as quietly as possible.

Hello Proud Cosmopolitan.
Interesting story. However, my take on this is 'do we have to lie?
If we are caught up with stories about what is a Jew, what is a Nazi, and what is safeguarding; then what is a lie becomes relevant. But if our reference was just who we really (the truth) are - human 'beings'. Then there is no Jew, no Nazi, no need for safeguarding, and no need to lie. The original question would become meaningless, and an answer of 'No' would not constitute a lie (untruth) in terms of 'what is true', but a lie in terms of 'what is an untrue' (our stories about people, places, things, and situations).

Added note Mon Mar 31, 2014 (my time zone): Some may misunderstand my post, so to further clarify:
I was just explaining that what might seem to be a lie (by saying 'No, I have no Jews here') is not a lie when we take away the story we have labelled our true self with. That is, we are all human beings - period. Jews, Nazis, etc are labels, they are not who we really are. The truth is always deeper than any label or story. Yes it is subtle, but it is the truth. And being truthful is not lying, even though on the surface, where the labels and stories are, it appears to be a lie. In the question 'do we have to lie?' means, do we have to see ourselves as lying, when in fact, what appears to be a lie - is actually the truth.

Proud Cosmopolitan wrote:Here is my take on this variation of the "would you lie to safeguard Jews from the Nazis" ethical dilemma,

It must be very subtle, but the choice between telling the truth and allowing innocent people to be murdered and telling a lie and saving them doesn't really seem like much of a dilemma. Who in their right mind would tell the truth?

I'd lie to protect a Jew who wouldn't? I draw the line at the Welsh though. j/k

Ahhhh in the old days it was the Irish that became the punch bag of the UK, now with the advent of Wales doing well in the Rugby we're stereotyping them <insert sheep joke here>. Scotland you had your chance.

Added further note to my post Sun Mar 30, 2014.