Philosophy Now Forum

I'm sure this post might seem naive or strange to many people, but i really hope for some serous input on this question.

I'm referring to God from the Bible, and i am really finding it strange that most people agree that God is good. It sounds strange when i say it that way, but for me God don't appear to be very good at all. To map out the direction I'm headed, let me mention Noah. God killed every living thing on the earth. Nobody ever ended more innocent lives than God. Imagine the baby's that drowned, the helpless mothers trying to save their innocent children from death. Not the only time God drowned people. Moses led the people out of Egypt, and as they walked across the ocean floor, God drowned all the police/soldiers that tried to bring the people back. Anybody killing police/soldiers are not often considered good. They just did their jobs, and should not die for it regardless of the details in the story.

I just find it fascinating that millions of people would agree to a statement that nobody is more good than God. Personally i think the Bible describes God in ways that makes Adolf Hitler and others seem more good than God. Adolf Hitler is only responsible for 9 million deaths or what ever the number is, but God seems to be responsible for extreme numbers compared. And the cruelty of the deaths and suffering - by the hand of God, is worse. Who the heck drowns baby's anyway ? That is just nuts. Not only did God drown baby's, but half the planet seems to be ok with it. We all remember the tsunami. How can we ignore that God did worse.

Just let me throw Lucifer in to the mix. He seems to be so much more good than God. Is that not strange ? He only punishes bad people, and the Bible seems to be clear that if you are a good person you are safe from Lucifer. Similar to our legal systems. God on the other hand seems to kill and cause suffering to all people on earth at times, for crimes like - "did not worship him" enough. hmm... if anybody in our world today started killing people because they did not worship him, we would call him a psychopath and consider him very bad.

Why is it that so many people are so blind to the bad sides/dark sides of God ?

Joseph Smith started up a trend of having many wife's back in 1800 something when he started the Mormon church. Jehovah Witnesses refuse contact with their own children and family members if they go out of their sect/religion. The Pope said that he is not going to be effected by the spread of aids etc. and continues his views about the use of condoms. These are actions by people, all in God's name. People doing this on their own, are considered very bad, but if God have something to do with it, it seems like the actions are purified instantly for many people.

The crusaders - year 1100 or when ever it was, massacred and even ate Muslim children in the middle east when there was no food for the soldiers. This fueled a hate in the Muslim population against Christians of the world that is easily ignited even today. Most people in the west are ignorant to this horrible history, even when we see the twin towers go down in NY fueled by this hate that have been pestering the world for hundreds of years. It seems strange to me that even the darkest history is ignored when it is in God's name.

So i ask my question - is God good ? Is there any chance or way we can possible say that God is good ?

I read something a long time ago about Lucifer being with God in heaven, he did not agree so God kicked him out of heaven or something of that nature. It seems like God has serious trouble getting along with others that have another opinion than him. Not the only people he kicked out, Adam and Eve was also kicked out of The Garden of Eden... seems like God is just kicking people out that does not obey or agree. A parent that did the same in a modern western society would get social services and the police on the door. But it seems like half the planet is ok with it as long as it is God that does the kicking out.

Why ?? I don understand why people ignore the bad stuff about God to this extent. Are people just so weak and needy of God that they are willing to accept just about anything, similar to a beaten wife ... that keeps returning to her abusive husband for more... again and again... making up excuses for him year after year. He is really good at the bottom of his hear she said. He beats her helf to death, and she repeats it, telling her kids and family that her husband - just needs some time, just some more love.

If she could only love him more, he would stop beating her ...

Maybe if we could just love God more, he would stop killing people ? Maybe if the people at Noas time, loved God more, he would not have killed their kids ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah5lBPr_iAY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnT2FcuZaYI

Christianirty is a big buisness, big buisnesses, will keep themselves alive for any cost, and thereby tell people what they want to hear. Many people are utterly stupid and can't think for themselves, nor understand the sales speech, but merely understand basic things like "good" and "salvation".

solitair wrote: So i ask my question - is God good ? Is there any chance or way we can possible say that God is good ?

I am familiar with, and understand all that has been attributed to God, but in the end, 'Is God good or bad, or are people good or bad?' According to religion God gave man free will to choose good or evil, so is God to blame for a man choosing to do bad things? Or is God an innocent bystander in all that has happened? Yes an 'all powerful' God could have stepped in and changed things, but there are 2 factors. One is that the laws of physics are consistent, and many people have asked God to get out of their lives and leave them alone. So God does just that, and when trouble comes they whine that God didn't stop the bad things from happening.

thedoc wrote:So God does just that, and when trouble comes they whine that God didn't stop the bad things from happening.

I think you just skipped over the main argument, for example that God drowned millions of people at Noas time. That is not being a bystander, that is asked to stay out of the way. That is someone doing the executions, doing the drowning of millions of innocent children. Jesus said children are innocent. So when god drowned all the children - if we believe Jesus, God committed the biggest sin in the history of the universe he created.

The question is irrelevant.
See the book of Job. Jahveh`s punch line is - always - `Because I can.`
That`s the only thing you ever need to know about gods.

HexHammer wrote:Christianirty is a big buisness, big buisnesses, will keep themselves alive for any cost, and thereby tell people what they want to hear.

Thanks for the reply HexHammer. I think what you address is peoples motivation to use God and his religion. But for that to be possible most people must consider God to be good.

If we had no religion on earth, and one day a man said : hey, im going to invent this fantacy caracter called God, that kills millions of people, and have half the plant believe in him... most people would probable say that he would never succeed. They would say, why should we believe in a mass killer ? Someone trying to help would probable suggest that he use a caracter that was only good and loving, with no bad actions behind him. But that is NOT God, because God has killed millions in the most horrible way. This is a dilemma for many politician with bad things in their past, they cant get enough votes. We see it when dictators get to power, they have to bye or threaten people to get there.

Half of the world believe in a mass killer of children and innocent people. The reason is that they consider God good. This is what makes the difference between God and other dictators here on earth.

What is the definition of being good ? Do we not have to consider all of the persons/beings actions ?

Theoretical future:
Lets say there is a heaven and life after death. Lets say i don't go to hell to be fried by Satan for eternity after my death. So i would be scheduled for heavenly transport to end up in heaven with good. But I would really not be comfortable there, hanging out with this mass killer of innocent children. I would refuse, and because God has this law of sin, where it is made clear that anybody that refuse him is to be burned in hell - it seems to be impossible to escape the eternal punishment set up by God - even you never commit any sins while here on earth.

This is why the only way to heaven is to believe in God, because if you don't, he will reject you to hell, no matter how good and innocent you are. This is a total and sickening dictatorship, where anybody that does not obey are executed in the most horrible way of being burned. Even they have not committed any sins for witch they deserve such punishment.

So what is my biggest obstacle escaping the flames of hell ? Not that I do bad things, because the solution to that is just to not commit any bad sins, and to repent for forgiveness. The biggest obstacle is that i can not, not every, worship a mass killer. So God does like Hitler, executes the underground movement, that goes against him.

If we follow the logic of what happens to a sinner, the one Satan should burn in hell for eternity was God himself, for all the bad killings God committed. So there we have another thing character flaw, the corruption in God's system. The law is not for the lawmaker, only for the people.

But what ? God has some sort of diplomatic immunity here on earth ?

Seriously this is one of the biggest questions in religion ! How can we say that God is good ?
I'm not asking how people can believe in God or why, because there seem to be many answers to those and similar question.

I'm asking: Is God really good ?

Skip wrote:The question is irrelevant.
See the book of Job. Jahveh`s punch line is - always - `Because I can.`
That`s the only thing you ever need to know about gods.

I'm trying to understand why half the planet seem to say that God is good.

One suggested that the reason most people consider God to be good, is because most people are very stupid. But this explanation is just to simple. Lower intelligence might be a reason for a very low percentage of the people, put most people that consider God to be good - does not have lower intelligence.

solitair wrote:One suggested that the reason most people consider God to be good, is because most people are very stupid. But this explanation is just to simple. Lower intelligence might be a reason for a very low percentage of the people, put most people that consider God to be good - does not have lower intelligence.

You have understood excatly nothing of what I told you.

HexHammer wrote:You have understood excatly nothing of what I told you.

ok, i will think about what you said again, and review the links.

HexHammer wrote:You have understood excatly nothing of what I told you.

I know i said that I'm trying to understand why half the planet seem to say that God is good. That may be very inaccurate - because i am not asking why they follow God, but why they actually feel in their heart and in their head that he is good. hmm... maybe still not accurate enough...

What you refer to : Solomon Asch, and others, are based on the same questions as raised after World War II - how could so many people follow Hitler. Many experiments have been conducted addressing the same. How we use "social prove" to make decisions. If fire is coming out from under a door, and someone is laughing and joking outside, people just walk by without calling the fire department.

But the thing is, after we all know that Hitler is a killer, after we have seen the gas chambers, not many believe in him anymore. And even people followed him during world war II, they did not consider him good. They just followed blind.

Today the main influence is that God does not exist, so if asch syndrom is the only ruuling force here, there should be less and less religion, until nothing - but that is not happening, so there are more "forces in play".

It seems like you say that God is not good, but people follow him blindly (Asch syndrom) anyway. Is this correct ?

But my MAIN question is not why people follow God blindly, but if God is good or not. Pleas help me see how you shed light on my question in your links or in your message.
I am asking - do we not have to consider all the actions of a person or being - to determine if they are good ? Is God good ?

When talking about God, there should be no presence of sin ? for him to be considered good ?

god has no attachment to event and so is good without event.the event its self is good .in the animal kingdom say a lion kills some prey .both the lion and its prey are good.god with attachment to event is bad.so bad is bad good.evil is bad good.hope that makes sence.god is love without attachment to event.love with attachment equals a break from love.and technicaly thats evil.so action just for event without love is evil.

Isn't he supposed to be omnibenevolent, omniscient and omnipresent hence anything God does is good by definition, besides he said so and he also said he can not lie.

blags i think you have over done the omnis mate.turn the oven off.

jackles wrote:blags i think you have over done the omnis mate.turn the oven off.

It says that in the Bible, God promises I think it's Elijah that he cannot lie, and then it goes on about his omnibenevolence and whatever. I didn't make the damn fairy tales up just saying.

solitair wrote:Today the main influence is that God does not exist, so if asch syndrom is the only ruuling force here, there should be less and less religion, until nothing - but that is not happening, so there are more "forces in play".

This makes absolutely no sense.

Have you actually understood what the Aschen vid was about? Did you understand which psychological phenomenom that was at play?

Do you understand the concept of atheism vs theism?

It seems you don't understand the basic nature of it all.