Philosophy Now Forum

I'm strictly guided by:

- relevance
- logic
- results over feelings
- be cynical, thereby one can see things objectively

Pretty much the way I see the world, I can't find fault with that set of conditions. That said though conditions are of course always conditional, I think as time goes by the conditions are more flexible at least.

I just try to be honest, but will avoid hurting others.

A lot of input to get as many aspects of the problem, then gut feeling, then follow up. The way I treat most problems.
No fast answers from me, except when speed is needed, then I go for step 2 and fix if result gets bad.

Its rather simple, but indeed, the intention must be backed up by actions for the intention on its own doesn't mean any thing;

Go south, and keep going south, until you go to far.
Go north, and keep going north, until you go to far.

Go south again, but never go too far and go north again, never too far, go again, and always stay in between east and west.

Three rules;
0. Don't do/be bad.
1. Take care of yourself.
2. Be/do good.

But above and beyond all;


Live the golden rule

(listen to bohemian rhapsody, if you want the simplest example.)


One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself.
One should not treat others in ways that one does not want to be treated.


And never forget your vowels;

I, take you, life, to be my Lawfully wedded, to have and to hold from this day forward, for better or for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish; from this day forward until death do us part.


May be, i'm being incomplete or per haps you do disagree.
Please say so.

What I do: mind my own business and keep my hands to myself.

Expanded: I won't steal from, physically hurt, or kill you IF you refrain from stealing from, physically hurting, or killing me.

*it's a practical thing, the foundation for civilized behavior

thedoc wrote:I just try to be honest, but will avoid hurting others.

i found out, these two things are impossible to go hand in hand, at all times concerning all situations and all people.
in fact, alot of times people can be offended by honesty.. if i'm wrong, you must be either really quiet (if you have nothing good to say, say nothing at all) or you do something i havent thought of yet? either one of those, or you're just lucky to have only open minded people around you all the time

henry quirk wrote:What I do: mind my own business and keep my hands to myself.

i mind the business of others too, yet when im told the values of my opinions are not appreciated, i will be on my way..
ask others, if they need help, and help them. its nice and rewarding, and when you need help, you may even find some one who really wants to help you

"i mind the business of others too"

You and a whole whack of other busybodies.

'Minding other folks' business' is a big part of what's wrong in the world.

#

"ask others, if they need help, and help them"

Mebbe you ought to wait till they ask for help.

if nobody saw it, you didn't do it

-Imp

henry quirk wrote:You and a whole whack of other busybodies.
'Minding other folks' business' is a big part of what's wrong in the world.
"ask others, if they need help, and help them"
Mebbe you ought to wait till they ask for help.

Henry, im sure you do understand, not everyone is good at asking help. Sometimes you just need to help them, even when they not ask for it.
Besides that, i find your perspective rather black / white.

'Minding other folks' business' is a big part of what's wrong in the world.

No, quite the opposite indeed.. maybe your (murican, and im assuming, only for the worst here) society is this way, but 1st of all;
this is not the world, just a tiny part of it.. the most snub nosy egoistic f* up one to be complete, and muricans are werid in general.
there are people/states who say they wanna help, and there are people/states who help. murica does not belong to the second one, well maybe helping yourself is helping too :/
will not go in detail on about it, but if you want, we can discuss this somewhere else.
second; people outside ur society are in need of help too, and they do not come and ask you for help, but none the less you can help them and they will appreciate it.

Get out of ya bubble once in a while its kinda scary i know

Impenitent wrote:if nobody saw it, you didn't do it

till the day comes, you cannot lie to yourself anymore.

"Henry, im sure you do understand, not everyone is good at asking help."

Yeah, I get that...I'm one of those people...I dislike being indebted...I dislike asking for help...so: I do what I can to 'not' need help.

I suggest others who don't want to (or can't) ask for help do the same (self-rely).

#

"Sometimes you just need to help them, even when they not ask for it. Besides that, i find your perspective rather black / white."


That's the typical attitude of the busybody: 'they need help and I'm just the one to give it'.

Arrogant to assume the other needs anything, or needs 'you'.

#

"Get out of ya bubble once in a while its kinda scary i know"

HA!

There's another typical attitude of the busybody: that patronizing superiority...the assumption that a differing view is (somehow) representative of being cloistered.

I suppose, though, I'm guilty of the same 'cause I find your take on the subject (of moral compasses) to be that of the Pollyanna ('Kumbaya Syndrome').

*shrug*

Tell you what: you go on saving the world and I'll go on doin' more productive things.

henry quirk wrote:"Henry, im sure you do understand, not everyone is good at asking help."
Yeah, I get that...I'm one of those people...I dislike being indebted...I dislike asking for help...so: I do what I can to 'not' need help.
I suggest others who don't want to (or can't) ask for help do the same (self-rely).

"Sometimes you just need to help them, even when they not ask for it. Besides that, i find your perspective rather black / white."
That's the typical attitude of the busybody: 'they need help and I'm just the one to give it'.
Arrogant to assume the other needs anything, or needs 'you'.

"Get out of ya bubble once in a while its kinda scary i know"
HA! There's another typical attitude of the busybody: that patronizing superiority...the assumption that a differing view is (somehow) representative of being cloistered.
I suppose, though, I'm guilty of the same 'cause I find your take on the subject (of moral compasses) to be that of the Pollyanna ('Kumbaya Syndrome').
*shrug* Tell you what: you go on saving the world and I'll go on doin' more productive things.

1st part;
Do you expect people to return the favor if you help them? That should not be the reason why you help someone, and therefore it is illogical to associate being indebted with being helped. No, you help others, to show them its a good thing. You do my laundry, i do yours and this world would be a nicer place. Help doesnt need to make sense, it is a gesture of good will, and even if this person ends up helping some one else because of you, you did a good thing.

2nd part;
Again, your perspective is black white, but when i see an old woman struggling with her luggage, i will not ask, i help.

3rd part;
It makes sense to give attention to negative things, because they need to be changed, but wouldnt you say too we arent in need of all evolutionary behavior anymore? Can't we let go of some of those things, for that is the next step in evolution; take care of each other

Perceiving exists. wrote:

henry quirk wrote:You and a whole whack of other busybodies.
'Minding other folks' business' is a big part of what's wrong in the world.
"ask others, if they need help, and help them"
Mebbe you ought to wait till they ask for help.

Henry, I'm sure you do understand, not everyone is good at asking help. Sometimes you just need to help them, even when they not ask for it.

Yep, Henry's right, this is the attitude of a busybody that thinks they know what everyone needs, and should have, better than others know for themselves. Sometimes the struggle is what some people want, and not someone else butting in and doing things for them. does it occur to you that the way you do something to help, may not be the way the other person wants to do it. If you saw someone struggling with a piece of music, would you just play it for them? What would they learn from that? If you see someone frying their dinner and you step in and grill it for them, does it occur to you that they may not like things grilled?

"Do you expect people to return the favor if you help them?"

Nope (but that's just 'me').

#

"...it is illogical to associate being indebted with being helped."

In my experience: most folks -- when they help you -- expect sumthin' in return and -- usually -- what they expect is out of proportion to the actual help lent.

As I say: I prefer not to be indebted.

#

"You do my laundry, i do yours and this world would be a nicer place."

HA!

It can be an equally nice place if you go on and do your own damned laundry and leave me to mine.

#

"...when i see an old woman struggling with her luggage, i will not ask, i help."

Well then, get to it, you Good Samaritan, you!

As I say: ' you go on saving the world and I'll go on doin' more productive things'.


##

Doc,

You wrote, "Sometimes the struggle is what some people want, and not someone else butting in and doing things for them."

Exactly.

Take P.e.'s example of the "old woman struggling with her luggage"...mebbe her doc told her to get offa her shriveled ass and work those muscles and bones (to slow down osteoporosis, or inhibit arthritis)...P.e., totally ignorant of that old broad's real needs (to shake off her health-damaging inertia) jumps in removes what might be her one major bit of activity for the day.

Arrogance.

thedoc wrote:Yep, Henry's right, this is the attitude of a busybody that thinks they know what everyone needs, and should have, better than others know for themselves. Sometimes the struggle is what some people want, and not someone else butting in and doing things for them. does it occur to you that the way you do something to help, may not be the way the other person wants to do it. If you saw someone struggling with a piece of music, would you just play it for them? What would they learn from that? If you see someone frying their dinner and you step in and grill it for them, does it occur to you that they may not like things grilled?

Be the piano teacher, not the pianist, and if they are writing, be the inspiration.
Ask them, how they would like their food to be prepared, and do so, and prepare it with much love, while they wait with the cold beer you gave them.

You people seem quite easily offended by what i say, is it because you have a hard time finding where you must disagree? If not, do i tell you to live your life different? No, i do not, do as you please, but dont say its a bad thing if the people in this world would help each other be it only for the better of kindness and understanding. This is btw a question for Henry too, are you from the states, or did i assume something complete out of context?

henry quirk wrote:Arrogance.

that sums up your post pretty accurate indeed .. #
I try to be nice, dont i, too to you too, or am i not? and yet i have the feeling i get nothing much but arrogance in return..
If i can help you, i would do so, and would not expect anything in return. The only hope i would have is that you some day help some one too from that perspective, and that is the only goal i have.
Live your life as you think you should do, i never will tell any to do any other way, and even if i would, you decide.

Hopefully you understand, my world is a bit warmer than yours, may it be only imo?


"And anytime you feel the pain, hey Jude, refrain
Don't carry the world upon your shoulders
For well you know that it's a fool who plays it cool
By making his world a little colder"


You are not the center of the universe, nor am i.
We are, the center of life.