Philosophy Now Forum

in tao phylosophy the advice is .treat others as if they where straw dogs.it means treat others as if they where you.treat others as if they where empty straw dogs with your self as there heart.do you agree.

The golden rule works in all philosophies, all societies.
Do onto others as you would have them do onto you.
Love thy neighbour as thyself.
Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
Only love, then do as you will.
Make no law that you couldn't obey; create no enforcement agency that you wouldn't want looking into your own affairs.

Skip wrote:The golden rule works in all philosophies, all societies.

Yup! The only problem is the people who don't get it.

the people who dont get it take the event identity which is straw dogs id to be there self.

Skip wrote:Make no law that you couldn't obey; create no enforcement agency that you wouldn't want looking into your own affairs.

This is pure nonsens!
If we had nothing to guide us, the narcisism and jungle law would take over, like in prisons, where the strong rule.

HexHammer wrote:

Skip wrote:Make no law that you couldn't obey; create no enforcement agency that you wouldn't want looking into your own affairs.

This is pure nonsens!
If we had nothing to guide us, the narcisism and jungle law would take over, like in prisons, where the strong rule.

Are you so narcissistic and base that it is only the law that prevents you behaving as though you were in some jungle like prison? Why are you bothered by the strong ruling in prison, who do you think rules outside?

uwot wrote:

HexHammer wrote:

Skip wrote:Make no law that you couldn't obey; create no enforcement agency that you wouldn't want looking into your own affairs.

This is pure nonsens!
If we had nothing to guide us, the narcisism and jungle law would take over, like in prisons, where the strong rule.

Are you so narcissistic and base that it is only the law that prevents you behaving as though you were in some jungle like prison? Why are you bothered by the strong ruling in prison, who do you think rules outside?

I assume english isn't your first language, so I excuse your poor rambling english.

Try read closer and you will find it's an anology, you take my words too literaly.

You need some basic debating skills.

HexHammer wrote:I assume english isn't your first language, so I excuse your poor rambling english.

That's very gracious of you, but I can't use that excuse. I imagine you speak quite a few languages ahead of English.

HexHammer wrote:Try read closer and you will find it's an anology, you take my words too literaly.

All right; I will.

HexHammer wrote:This is pure nonsens!
If we had nothing to guide us, the narcisism and jungle law would take over, like in prisons, where the strong rule.

Well it's a sort of Hobbesian 'Nasty, brutish and short.' assumption. What do you base it on? My spell in prison was very short and it was a military prison anyway, so I can't really comment, but I think it is arguable that the reason narcissism and jungle law rules in prisons, is because they are full of criminals.

HexHammer wrote:You need some basic debating skills.

I do my best.

uwot wrote:

HexHammer wrote:This is pure nonsens!
If we had nothing to guide us, the narcisism and jungle law would take over, like in prisons, where the strong rule.

Well it's a sort of Hobbesian 'Nasty, brutish and short.' assumption. What do you base it on? My spell in prison was very short and it was a military prison anyway, so I can't really comment, but I think it is arguable that the reason narcissism and jungle law rules in prisons, is because they are full of criminals.

No, the Millgram Experiment would explain the odd and counterintuitive nature of why lawobidient and decent soldiers would turn to brute and savages in the killingfields of 'Nam back in the days, when these soldiers didn't have the slightest hint of being psychopaths or having any other mental illness.

It was due to the "groupthink" aspect of humans, that they will turn on anyone who would defy them, only if they had strong moral guidance would soldiers behave civil and decent on the battlefield.

HexHammer wrote:No, the Millgram Experiment would explain the odd and counterintuitive nature of why lawobidient and decent soldiers would turn to brute and savages in the killingfields of 'Nam back in the days, when these soldiers didn't have the slightest hint of being psychopaths or having any other mental illness.

It was due to the "groupthink" aspect of humans, that they will turn on anyone who would defy them, only if they had strong moral guidance would soldiers behave civil and decent on the battlefield.

I thought the Milgram experiment was devised to discover whether people would follow orders. I don't think people serving in Vietnam turned into brutes because they were ordered to. Well, that's a moot point.

uwot wrote:

HexHammer wrote:No, the Millgram Experiment would explain the odd and counterintuitive nature of why lawobidient and decent soldiers would turn to brute and savages in the killingfields of 'Nam back in the days, when these soldiers didn't have the slightest hint of being psychopaths or having any other mental illness.

It was due to the "groupthink" aspect of humans, that they will turn on anyone who would defy them, only if they had strong moral guidance would soldiers behave civil and decent on the battlefield.

I thought the Milgram experiment was devised to discover whether people would follow orders. I don't think people serving in Vietnam turned into brutes because they were ordered to. Well, that's a moot point.

Millgram Experiment would releal only 1 side of "groupthink" there are also other aspect where people will allign themselves with the group voulentarily, even if there's NO pressure what so ever.

HexHammer wrote: Millgram Experiment would releal only 1 side of "groupthink" there are also other aspect where people will allign themselves with the group voulentarily, even if there's NO pressure what so ever.

Presumably you mean a group of brutes and savages. Has anyone devised an experiment to show that?

uwot wrote:

HexHammer wrote: Millgram Experiment would releal only 1 side of "groupthink" there are also other aspect where people will allign themselves with the group voulentarily, even if there's NO pressure what so ever.

Presumably you mean a group of brutes and savages. Has anyone devised an experiment to show that?

No, you are sorely mistaken, read up on "groupthink" not from wiki as it's more misleading than leading.
You can also youtube it, there's many good examples.

HexHammer wrote:

Skip wrote:Make no law that you couldn't obey; create no enforcement agency that you wouldn't want looking into your own affairs.

This is pure nonsens!

Why? Are you the one who should be above and outside the law that you make for everyone else? If so, what makes you superior? Who put you in charge, and what power will keep you there?

If we had nothing to guide us,

Why would that happen, just because the law applied to all the people?
We have intelligence, reason, understanding, the ability to predict cause and effect, instinct, empathy, culture, history, social structure, loyalty, fairness, judgment.... What do you mean, nothing to guide us?

the narcisism and jungle law would take over,

You don't know much about jungles. Narcissism is a product of advanced human civilizations.

like in prisons, where the strong rule.

In societies that are in the process of breaking down (civilizations in decline) the legal authority has given up control. Society has turned its prisons from a system of correction to a dump where society discards the citizens it has failed. In civilizations that are functioning well, prisons and mental institutions are ruled by legal guardians, not inmates, and the weak are protected.

But social decline still doesn't mean that the people in power should be immune from investigation by their own agencies.

HexHammer wrote:...you are sorely mistaken, read up on "groupthink" not from wiki as it's more misleading than leading.

I looked up groupthink here: http://www.psysr.org/about/pubs_resourc ... erview.htm and here: http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/theory/grpthink.html I don't know whether you would think either of these sources reliable. If not, perhaps you could provide a link that gives a version that corresponds with your understanding, because from what I have read, it would not explain the behaviour of combatants in Vietnam and I don't see that it is related to the Milgram experiment other than indirectly.