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Weinberg discusses the deepest level

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:11 am
by Kuznetzova
Steven Weinberg is a physicist and the winner of the Nobel Prize in physics in 1979.

Here he is in an interview in which he talks about the issue of regularity in the universe. Weinberg is pressed several times by the interviewer about the regularity of the laws of the nature, which had been noticed by scientists even prior to Newton's lifetime.
Weinberg wrote: I think we are permanently in the tragic position of not being able to understand, at the deepest possible level, why things are they way they are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... -xs#t=1915

Re: Weinberg discusses the deepest level

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:03 pm
by QMan
Kuznetzova wrote:Steven Weinberg is a physicist and the winner of the Nobel Prize in physics in 1979.

Here he is in an interview in which he talks about the issue of regularity in the universe. Weinberg is pressed several times by the interviewer about the regularity of the laws of the nature, which had been noticed by scientists even prior to Newton's lifetime.
Weinberg wrote: I think we are permanently in the tragic position of not being able to understand, at the deepest possible level, why things are they way they are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... -xs#t=1915[/quote
Watched first two segments so far. Not exactly what I would call a fair and balanced presentation of the atheistic and theist views since it is atheist interviewing atheists and patting each others back. Not impressed with some very flawed arguments but might go into details concerning that later.

In the meantime, here is something to help the physicist Dr. Weinberg and us understand at the deepest level.

http://www.greatdanepro.com/Just%20Colors/index.htm

Re: Weinberg discusses the deepest level

Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:27 am
by Kuznetzova
QMan wrote:Watched first two segments so far. Not exactly what I would call a fair and balanced presentation of the atheistic and theist views since it is atheist interviewing atheists and patting each others back. Not impressed with some very flawed arguments but might go into details concerning that later.
Even Nobel laureates must concede to the mystery of existence. If we figure everything out, we still don't know why it is that way and not another. You can ignore the rest of the video, as far as I'm concerned.
QMan wrote: In the meantime, here is something to help the physicist Dr. Weinberg and us understand at the deepest level.

http://www.greatdanepro.com/Just%20Colors/index.htm
That's fine. However, many of us today believe our sense organs are tools related to our bodily survival and reproductive success.

Re: Weinberg discusses the deepest level

Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:27 pm
by Andy Kay
Kuznetzova wrote: Even Nobel laureates must concede to the mystery of existence. If we figure everything out, we still don't know why it is that way and not another [...] many of us today believe our sense organs are tools related to our bodily survival and reproductive success.
Yes. Reasoning is a mode of behaviour that adapts us to our environment. Reasoning transgresses its remit when we seek to know why the world is reasonable. We explain particular regularities in terms of their embeddedness in other regularities -- i.e. the existence of regularities in general is what makes explanation possible. It would therefore be incoherent to demand that the existence of regularities in general should be explicable.

Re: Weinberg discusses the deepest level

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:50 am
by Greylorn Ell
Kuznetzova wrote:Steven Weinberg is a physicist and the winner of the Nobel Prize in physics in 1979.

Here he is in an interview in which he talks about the issue of regularity in the universe. Weinberg is pressed several times by the interviewer about the regularity of the laws of the nature, which had been noticed by scientists even prior to Newton's lifetime.
Weinberg wrote: I think we are permanently in the tragic position of not being able to understand, at the deepest possible level, why things are they way they are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... -xs#t=1915
This pseudo-interview, or discussion, is as interesting as watching any two pseudo-intellectuals who are in complete agreement on an irrelevant subject massage one another's squishy little brains.

Suppose that we got a similar pair together and invited them to discuss the existence of Zeus and Apollo, and the relevance of Greek theology. Would that be interesting? Might be, to someone who actually believed that ancient Greek theology explained the origin and development of the universe.

These guys are not engaged in a serious conversation. They are congratulating one another at the level of typical pseudo-intellectuals for not believing in an absurd concept. In this case, the absurd concept is the notion that an omnipotent, omniscient God of Judaism/Christianity/Islam created the universe.

If either of these shmoos were intellectually honest, instead of sharing insightful intellectual innuendos, they would acknowledge that the J/C/I god is an absurd and logically insupportable concept, no more relevant to an explanation of reality than the gods of ancient Egypt and Babylon, and move on to a more interesting idea---

Might the universe have been created by an alternative kind of entity, or group thereof? Imagine logically and physically limited entities for this context.

Notice that neither of these smirking turkeys are discussing concepts that are challenges within their current belief system. They are not discussing:
  • Why Big Bang theory failed to predict dark energy.
  • Why Big Bang theory failed to predict the Higgs field.
  • Why they think that a physical singularity is real.
  • How the first self-reproducing cell came into existence.
  • Why humans and animals are telepathic.
  • The extraordinarily horrid odds against a single small human gene coming into existence because of random changes.

Re: Weinberg discusses the deepest level

Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:57 pm
by Blaggard
Yes El once again you post a contention without actually explaining it except to say it is wrong. In what way though would further advance this topic? But then that is not going to happen is it, you're to busy shouting YOU'RE ALL JUST FUCKING WRONG, SHUT UP I AM NOT LISTENING!!!34jskaf

God you really are wasting your time Grey you can't just post god of the gaps arguments in lieu of actual arguments, it makes you look like a person who never went to school.
Why Big Bang theory failed to predict dark energy.

It didn't set out to do that so that is just a straw man. When the Big Bang theory was first posited, the idea that there was more to the universe than actually was known had never been posited, hence it could not tackle a subject it had no means to know about.
Why Big Bang theory failed to predict the Higgs field.
Again these are related but not entirely related fields, the Big Bang only set out to explain the origins of the universe, not the standard model or anything else, as I said it was around a long time before such concerns as Higgs. Recent models have of course tried to explain them consistently, but since the origins of the universal particle model are mostly if not entirely hypothetical it is hard to go into great detail because one can only deduce from what there is now, rather than do experiments at t>0. That's not to say they are not scientifically theoretical, obviously one can simulate the large energy concerns and explore matter formation from highly energetic states of matter and it's resultant creation of particles, so there is at least some tentative evidence.

This is the usual argument where they say well you don't know exactly this hence my "theory" slides in because you don't. It's lazy pointless and a waste of anyones' time. If you want to actually disprove anything you have to prove how it could not have happened, not state because we don't have an entire picture it could not hence of happened. That's science El, what you do is just sophistry. See your so called ideas have way bigger gaps they don't even have a single experiment, or any tangible evidence, but somehow by magic, theories that have more than just arm waving bollocks are superseded by this magical, evidence free, thinking.
Why they think that a physical singularity is real.
A singularity may or may not be real it's not a particularly strong theory, or even a hypothesis precisely per se, but most physicists think that enormous gravitational events can create them even if they do not involve infinities per se.
How the first self-reproducing cell came into existence.
Gah these irreducible complexity arguments are so boring. Prove how it could not happen, don't claim after a billion years it can not. Use your science.
Why humans and animals are telepathic.
Oh they are are they, prove it.
The extraordinarily horrid odds against a single small human gene coming into existence because of random changes.
You've been debunked on this before, your lack of genetic understanding is not going to play well if you refuse to tackle the fact that the mutation of cells could easilly produce life like like elements that could lead to life, let alone mammalian life, let alone human life.


Honestly Grey, as I have said before go to school, learn about the subjects you are trying to debunk and then come back. If you don't people are just going to mock you for the fraudulent arguments you clearly use without regards for any explanation other than, I am right and you are wrong. It's a circus of clown shoe argument El, you really do not have a thing that has anything to do with science, all it is, is opinion.

And you wonder why no one has ever been convinced by your word salad? Do you really have to wonder that much, or is it just that it's just a priori assertions based on nothing? See people are convinced by evidence not speculation. It's the way science works, although I somehow suspect you have never really indulged the whole idea of what science actually is. You lost interest in science at some point, which is sad, because had you been a half decent scientist in the first place, you would of set out to to prove why the field you were in was wrong instead of running from it, arms flailing like an intellectual coward. You did not get the learning because you could not be assed to complete a degree, and now you just muddle around the various subjects absorbing by bias everything that agrees with you, and ignoring anyone and anyone who kicks your sad little argument into touch.

You make me sad El, not because you are not even wrong, just because you wont even make the simple effort to be proven wrong, anywhere in any field that is not your own personal "Jesus". People who are so lazy as you are in your arguments, and so self involved genuinely disgust me. You are a place holder for a better argument and hence a better person who doesn't spend his entire time shouting I am not listening at the void like some broken record pointed at space. It's not the science that will die and be replaced, it does so every year anyway by the means of actual scientists taking a beating stick to it with the proper tools involved; it's just you who will die, and all your arguments fade into the pointless obscurity such meaningless nonsense deserves. Which is sad really as you could do something, but you chose to do nothing more than sit on the sidelines and hurl abuse in lieu of reason and experiment.