Philosophy Now Forum

Tao is full of paradoxical phrases.
It contains wisdom our western logic cannot comprehend.
But the world is inherently illogical - so why try to understand it logically?
Being illogical could be the best way to reach the truth.

In this thread I will try to post some thoughts/teachings of Tao for discussion.

I will start with a favourite of mine...

"Seek the empty, if you wish to be full"...

skakos wrote:"Seek the empty, if you wish to be full."

What the hell does that mean???
P.S. Since you're from Greece, what do you think of "The Ouzo Prophecy"?

bobevenson wrote:

skakos wrote:"Seek the empty, if you wish to be full."

What the hell does that mean???
P.S. Since you're from Greece, what do you think of "The Ouzo Prophecy"?

Imagine that a person lived in a country they are very unhappy living in. In other words, they are very angry at the political and economic direction it is heading and they are desperate for change. They try to seek fulfillment by expressing their displeasure at the government and its laws. Unfortunately, the more they vent their anger at the government and people that disagree with them the less fulfilled they become. They become angrier and more anxious.

What the quote means is that the answer to all of this tension, anxiety and frustration is to practice the opposite of anger and resentment. This way politics becomes an non-issue. They can be come fulfilled in terms of understanding that this is just the way the world is.

Ginkgo wrote:

bobevenson wrote:

skakos wrote:"Seek the empty, if you wish to be full."

What the hell does that mean???
P.S. Since you're from Greece, what do you think of "The Ouzo Prophecy"?

Imagine that a person lived in a country they are very unhappy living in. In other words, they are very angry at the political and economic direction it is heading and they are desperate for change. They try to seek fulfillment by expressing their displeasure at the government and its laws. Unfortunately, the more they vent their anger at the government and people that disagree with them the less fulfilled they become. They become angrier and more anxious.

What the quote means is that the answer to all of this tension, anxiety and frustration is to practice the opposite of anger and resentment. This way politics becomes an non-issue. They can be come fulfilled in terms of understanding that this is just the way the world is.

Oh, great, just accept everything like some catatonic zombie.

skakos wrote:"Seek the empty, if you wish to be full"...

Zen Buddhism copy-cat religion.

The phrase has a very simple meaning, which I'd also dare to call singular, and that is that things which are scarce, are easily fulfilled, because the expectations are smaller. This is true always unless you've accustomed yourself to thinking of the thing now in scarce quantity as previously being in abundance (something for which you suddenly have little or nothing of, like spending all your rich amounts of money and finding that you'll have to resort to cheap or free solutions to your desires and needs from then on).

The Voice of Time wrote:

skakos wrote:"Seek the empty, if you wish to be full"...

Zen Buddhism copy-cat religion.

The phrase has a very simple meaning, which I'd also dare to call singular, and that is that things which are scarce, are easily fulfilled, because the expectations are smaller. This is true always unless you've accustomed yourself to thinking of the thing now in scarce quantity as previously being in abundance (something for which you suddenly have little or nothing of, like spending all your rich amounts of money and finding that you'll have to resort to cheap or free solutions to your desires and needs from then on).

As a prophet, my interpretation is that if you hunger for something, look at those who have nothing, and in comparison you will feel full.

bobevenson wrote:

The Voice of Time wrote:

skakos wrote:"Seek the empty, if you wish to be full"...

Zen Buddhism copy-cat religion.

The phrase has a very simple meaning, which I'd also dare to call singular, and that is that things which are scarce, are easily fulfilled, because the expectations are smaller. This is true always unless you've accustomed yourself to thinking of the thing now in scarce quantity as previously being in abundance (something for which you suddenly have little or nothing of, like spending all your rich amounts of money and finding that you'll have to resort to cheap or free solutions to your desires and needs from then on).

As a prophet, my interpretation is that if you hunger for something, look at those who have nothing, and in comparison you will feel full.

Yes, that is the current sentiment out there. But the problem with this line of thinking is that the contentment would not be there if I had to make sure there were less fortunate people out there so that I may feel content with my situation. I could never feel content while there are those less fortunate....so I would never feel "full".

My take on the above phrase is that if I can be happy with nothing or no expectations or desires, then I can be more fulfilled than even the richest man....simply because my happiness is not based on material possessions or other people. Plus I would not have to place anyone beneath me or harm them so that I can raise my level of happiness in comparison to their miserable lives. Instead I could say, look, I am just like you...but I have found the key to happiness...if you want I could show you how too.

artisticsolution wrote:
Yes, that is the current sentiment out there. But the problem with this line of thinking is that the contentment would not be there if I had to make sure there were less fortunate people out there so that I may feel content with my situation. I could never feel content while there are those less fortunate....so I would never feel "full".

No, what I meant was that seeing others with nothing takes away your hunger for more.

It means stop thinking.you are ok so dont worry .if you love you self with out desire for things you are the fullest you can be.there is nothing more than the you that you where born as so be empty be you.so nothing is full.something is empty.something feels nothing is empty but its the something thats empty not the nothing.love is no thing.its love.most people are in empty mode in normal walk down the street consciouness.though some have to have things to be in that normal state.me being no exception.

skakos wrote:

Tao is full of paradoxical phrases.
It contains wisdom our western logic cannot comprehend.
But the world is inherently illogical - so why try to understand it logically?
Being illogical could be the best way to reach the truth.

In this thread I will try to post some thoughts/teachings of Tao for discussion.

I will start with a favourite of mine...

"Seek the empty, if you wish to be full"...

I'm shopping in an appliance store. I notice that I'm hungry (I skipped breakfast). I proceed to the section of the store that contains refrigerators. I open the door of a refrigerator. It is empty, no food therein. I close the door. Am I now full and not hungry?

skakos wrote:

Tao is full of paradoxical phrases.
It contains wisdom our western logic cannot comprehend.
But the world is inherently illogical - so why try to understand it logically?
Being illogical could be the best way to reach the truth.

In this thread I will try to post some thoughts/teachings of Tao for discussion.

I will start with a favourite of mine...

"Seek the empty, if you wish to be full"...

"But the world is inherently illogical - so why try to understand it logically?"
Doesn't science presuppose that reality is intelligible? Logical? Discoverable?

tbieter wrote:

skakos wrote:
"Seek the empty, if you wish to be full"...

I'm shopping in an appliance store. I notice that I'm hungry (I skipped breakfast). I proceed to the section of the store that contains refrigerators. I open the door of a refrigerator. It is empty, no food therein. I close the door. Am I now full and not hungry?

You have a good point there...but then I suppose if you are 'no thing' then you won't hunger. But then again...if you don't eat....you really WILL be 'no thing'...lol.

Desire is good at times. Thanks for waking up this semi comatose nihilist, Tom.

skakos wrote:Tao is full of paradoxical phrases.
It contains wisdom our western logic cannot comprehend.

What do you think the phrase "paradoxical phrases" means?

But the world is inherently illogical - so why try to understand it logically?

Because we understand the world through reason and reasoning is logical. How do you know the world is illogical?

Being illogical could be the best way to reach the truth.

Not if the word "truth" is to have any meaning.

In this thread I will try to post some thoughts/teachings of Tao for discussion.

So now you wish to discuss what you say is incomprehensible?

I will start with a favourite of mine...

"Seek the empty, if you wish to be full"...

Are we supposed to meditate at the same time? As I thought the purpose of the koans is as an aid to meditation.

Its my opinion that tao phylosophy and christian pholosphy if understood correctly are the same thing.but maybe different conclusions .but thats just human error.

skakos wrote: "Seek the empty, if you wish to be full"...

If you are already full of knowledge, there is little room for anything else. But if you empty yourself of what you think you know, you can learn new things.