Philosophy Now Forum

Posted: **Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:37 pm**

This morning I completed reading Escape from Detroit: The Collapse of America's Black Metropolis.

I immediately thought of London and Paris (the invasions of Islamic peoples) when I read the following paragraph (the most significant one in the book):

"There's a reason the entire non-European world wishes to live in the European-created world; they'd rather live in a world created and sustained by what Disingenuous White Liberals (DWLs) call 'white privilege' than their native land. The only 'white privilege' that white people have left in Europe, America, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa is the privilege of watching their nations become submerged by people who have no vested interest in maintaining the culture (an extension of race) that created it."

I think, however, that an adequate definition of 'culture' is certainly more than just an "extension of race".

Any thoughts, anybody?

http://www.amazon.com/Escape-Detroit-Co ... metropolis

The author's blog: http://stuffblackpeopledontlike.blogspot.com/

Posted: **Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:53 pm**

I haven't read Mr Kersey's book, but did read a recent article in the Economist that gave a completely different explanation for Detroit's collapse towards bankruptcy:

http://www.economist.com/news/united-st ... -be-mended

The crisis has been brewing for decades. Fifty years ago the city was rich. GM, Ford and Chrysler cranked out nearly all the cars sold in America. Detroit was home to 1.8m people. Today only 700,000 remain. Many are poor and poorly educated—82% have no more than a high-school diploma. The city sprawls over an unmanageable 140 square miles (enough to swallow Boston, San Francisco and Manhattan). Delivering services to barely-populated neighbourhoods would be hard even if the city government were well-run, which it is not.

Global economic shifts did not help—Detroit’s Big Three have struggled to compete with foreign carmakers. But the big problem is that Motown has seen a “perfect storm of mistakes at every level”, says Jennifer Bradley of the Brookings Institution, a think-tank. Its leaders ran up debts that a shrinking population could never pay. Those debts forced the city to raise taxes and cut services. That made Detroit a less appealing place to live, causing the population to shrink even more. Moving to the affluent (and politically separate) suburbs is easy, so many people have. Only 30% of the jobs within the city are held by residents, and 61% of Detroiters who work do so outside the city, according to Bruce Katz, also of Brookings.

The meat is in the second paragraph above. Note that the economy of the city was very heavily dependent on the auto industry, and when the three big car manufacturers hit problems, of course Detroit caught a cold as a direct result. Presumably even Mr Kersey doesn't blame black people specifically for the decline of the US car industry? If there is any doubt over this, it would be easy to look up the racial composition of the boards of directors of GM, Ford and Chrysler over the past few decades, but I imagine that there is no need.

Once Detroit was hit by the problems in its main (only?) industry, the city-level policy mistakes identified in the second paragraph caused it to stay in a long term decline. Everyone who could afford to, regardless of race, moved to the suburbs where the living was easier and the taxes were lower. The only folk who didn't move were those who couldn't afford to. As a high proportion of the poorest are black, this meant that the proportion of blacks in Detroit proper would have risen dramatically, but this would have been an effect of central Detroit's decline rather than a cause as Mr Kersey believes.

The obvious solution would be to merge the outer suburbs politically with the blighted centre of the city. After all, according to the Economist article 70 percent of those who work in Detroit proper live in the suburbs, so they have a stake in making the city work. Merging the suburbs would dramatically increase the revenues of the city centre, ending the vicious cycle of risign taxes and falling population identified by the Economist. But even more importantly, the pool of voters for the city government would include a wide mix of Detroit citizens of all classes including successful businesspeople and affluent professionals, and not just poor folk on benefits, who are easy for venal politicians to manipulate.

Posted: **Sat Oct 05, 2013 1:18 pm**

I visited Detroit once. About 20 years, or so, ago. I remember being wowed by the People Mover, a delicious meal at a Greek restaurant and the impressive Renaissance Centre, its revolving restaurant overlooking the river.

So, I watched with interest Julien Temple's documentary 'Requiem for Detroit ?' [...a vivid evocation of an apocalyptic vision - a slow-motion Katrina that has had many more victims...]
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00rkm3y

...it was unbelievable...how could this happen?
Everything changes; but who or what to blame for neglect, lack of care for a community?

I looked up different points of view, particularly about Greektown:
http://www.deadlinedetroit.com/articles ... k_28fFwbMw

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greektown_ ... c_District

It's all about people movement; for better or worse...

Here is how it is described now:

Greektown is a historic commercial and entertainment district in Detroit, Michigan, located just northeast of the heart of downtown,...with a station on the city's elevated downtown elevated transit system known as the Detroit People Mover. Greektown is also situated between the Renaissance Center, Comerica Park, and Ford Field. The district is dominated by Greek-themed restaurants and includes St. Mary Roman Catholic Church, Second Baptist Church, the Athenium Suite Hotel, and the Greektown Casino Hotel within its boundaries…

and then:

The area known today as Greektown was first settled in the 1830s by German immigrants, who created a primarily residential neighborhood in the area.[2] However, in the earliest years of the 20th century, most of the German residents began moving from the neighborhood into areas further from downtown…

From what I gather, it is when businesses take over, or leave, that communities and cultures are affected. The introduction of casinos. Also, changing attitudes of the younger generations who don't wish to continue with tradition. And, of course, the power of those in 'charge'...

Interesting to read of other perspectives on causes, effects and potential solutions...

Posted: **Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:24 am**

http://www.economist.com/news/united-st ... -be-mended

Rick,

The Economist article above that you cite mentions the 1967 race riot and the subsequent record murder rates but does not mention some significant facts (from Kersey's book:

1. In 1960, a prosperous Detroit was 76 % White. Blacks were 24%.
2. White flight to the suburbs began immediately after the 1967 race riot. The principal cause of the White flight was the Black crime rate.
3. In 1973, Colman A. Young was elected mayor, the first Black mayor in the city's history. He served for over 20 years. Thereafter, the city council and the city's bureaucracy became controlled by Blacks.
4. Now Detroit is 89% Black.

Kersey contends that White people built a civilization in Detroit; they abandoned it to Blacks; the Blacks were unable to preserve the civilized institutions and culture.

In my view the racial population and political change in in the city from 1967 to date needs analysis and evaluation.

That groups of people exhibit distinct patterns of behavior different from other groups is, I think, demonstrable.

Posted: **Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:34 am**

.

I think you're trying to make a race thing.

It's just not there.

We're beyond that here in America.

We are all Americans.

We hold the moral imperative of the world.

................................................................................

.

Posted: **Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:41 am**

tbieter wrote:This morning I completed reading Escape from Detroit: The Collapse of America's Black Metropolis.

I immediately thought of London and Paris (the invasions of Islamic peoples) when I read the following paragraph (the most significant one in the book):

"There's a reason the entire non-European world wishes to live in the European-created world; they'd rather live in a world created and sustained by what Disingenuous White Liberals (DWLs) call 'white privilege' than their native land. The only 'white privilege' that white people have left in Europe, America, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa is the privilege of watching their nations become submerged by people who have no vested interest in maintaining the culture (an extension of race) that created it."

I think, however, that an adequate definition of 'culture' is certainly more than just an "extension of race".

Any thoughts, anybody?

Excellent!

White Culture being the systems / orders / institutions.

White Culture is a ship / maritime culture.

"Steady as she goes"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmd8FRyPN2M

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internatio ... ons_at_Sea

There are five (5) Racial ships on the sea of chaos.
The ships were built by White Supremacist Racists.
Mixed-Race (river?) is more orderly than "Other" (sea?).

Here is a picture of the ship that the White Supremacist Racists built:
http://wingswithme.files.wordpress.com/ ... az-058.jpg

Posted: **Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:27 am**

yes i see a lot of paragons of the superior white civilization in my neck of the woods

their contribution to the fine european art of driving around in a pickup truck and hollering is inestimable

Posted: **Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:10 pm**

Kayla wrote:yes i see a lot of paragons of the superior white civilization in my neck of the woods

their contribution to the fine european art of driving around in a pickup truck and hollering is inestimable

brilliant!

-Imp

Posted: **Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:18 am**

tbieter wrote:This morning I completed reading Escape from Detroit: The Collapse of America's Black Metropolis.

I immediately thought of London and Paris (the invasions of Islamic peoples) when I read the following paragraph (the most significant one in the book):

"There's a reason the entire non-European world wishes to live in the European-created world; they'd rather live in a world created and sustained by what Disingenuous White Liberals (DWLs) call 'white privilege' than their native land. The only 'white privilege' that white people have left in Europe, America, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa is the privilege of watching their nations become submerged by people who have no vested interest in maintaining the culture (an extension of race) that created it."

The Culture of Europe is what I had in mind and should be discussed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_Europe

I think, however, that an adequate definition of 'culture' is certainly more than just an "extension of race".

Any thoughts, anybody?

http://www.amazon.com/Escape-Detroit-Co ... metropolis

The author's blog: http://stuffblackpeopledontlike.blogspot.com/

Posted: **Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:45 am**

tbieter wrote:"There's a reason the entire non-European world wishes to live in the European-created world; they'd rather live in a world created and sustained by what Disingenuous White Liberals (DWLs) call 'white privilege' than their native land. The only 'white privilege' that white people have left in Europe, America, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa is the privilege of watching their nations become submerged by people who have no vested interest in maintaining the culture (an extension of race) that created it."

The Culture of Europe is what I had in mind and should be discussed.

I suspect you are thinking of Mozart and Michaelangelo. Just as much a part of European culture are Napoleon and Hitler. We're a cantankerous bunch, as the natives of America, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa have discovered.
If it is culture you wish to discuss, why post this in the politics forum?

Posted: **Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:52 pm**

uwot wrote:
tbieter wrote:"There's a reason the entire non-European world wishes to live in the European-created world; they'd rather live in a world created and sustained by what Disingenuous White Liberals (DWLs) call 'white privilege' than their native land. The only 'white privilege' that white people have left in Europe, America, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa is the privilege of watching their nations become submerged by people who have no vested interest in maintaining the culture (an extension of race) that created it."

The Culture of Europe is what I had in mind and should be discussed.
I suspect you are thinking of Mozart and Michaelangelo. Just as much a part of European culture are Napoleon and Hitler. We're a cantankerous bunch, as the natives of America, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa have discovered.
If it is culture you wish to discuss, why post this in the politics forum?

Hello?

Can there be culture without politics?

Posted: **Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:12 pm**

Brit Dems wrote:Hello?

Hello.

Brit Dems wrote:Can there be culture without politics?

That's not the issue. Any collection of people will have a culture, there will also be some politics, but the two are not interdependent.

Posted: **Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:09 pm**

tbieter: The Culture of Europe is what I had in mind and should be discussed.

Should?
Why?

Posted: **Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:55 am**

uwot wrote:
Brit Dems wrote:Hello?

Hello.
Brit Dems wrote:Can there be culture without politics?
That's not the issue. Any collection of people will have a culture, there will also be some politics, but the two are not interdependent.

1. Do you believe that a culture does not depend on a political structure for its survival?

2. Do you believe that a political structure does not depend on a culture to maintain it?

Come again.

Posted: **Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:05 am**

Brit Dems wrote:1. Do you believe that a culture does not depend on a political structure for its survival?

Yes.

Brit Dems wrote:2. Do you believe that a political structure does not depend on a culture to maintain it?

Yes. Culture is usually more resilient than political structures. This is not always a good thing, as for instance, the former Yugoslavia shows.

Brit Dems wrote:Come again.

You should do some history; you would be less easily shocked.

Philosophy Now Forum

Black People and Culture

Black People and Culture

Re: Black People and Culture

Re: Black People and Culture

Re: Black People and Culture

Re: Black People and Culture

Re: Black People and Culture

Re: Black People and Culture

Re: Black People and Culture

Re: Black People and Culture

Re: Black People and Culture

Re: Black People and Culture

Re: Black People and Culture

Re: Black People and Culture

Re: Black People and Culture

Re: Black People and Culture