Philosophy Now Forum

What would be a better direction for human evolution - divergence or convergence?

Should people become more and more alike, over time, until there is no outsider to be prejudiced against?

Or should people become increasingly different, until each is so unique that there is no collective trait to be prejudiced against?

You eliminate prejudice by giving people knowledge and teaching them not to presuppose too much.

I might try that, if i had the power. But somebody who wanted power would come along right behind me, and incite factions against one another all over again. (In 1965, the US was almost on the verge of attempting to assess the feasibility of a unified nation. By 1968, Nixon had managed to widen racial and ethnic rifts enough to slip his campaign through. His successors have fragmented it to 30-odd hostile tribes.) The easiest way to control people is by exploiting their fears and hatreds. It happens every time a throne changes bums. Periods of enlightenment and tolerance are brief and local: somebody, somewhere always has a wedge.

Bigotry will end when it stops being useful. And that can happen only if the human race changes.
So which direction of change would be better?

That's a lot of pessimism. I have no answer for you.

I don't need an answer. I was merely wondering whether anyone here had a preference for one or the other direction for human evolution to proceed and, if so, why.

Skip wrote:I don't need an answer. I was merely wondering whether anyone here had a preference for one or the other direction for human evolution to proceed and, if so, why.

Good question
I pick b.

Divergence is how evolution is best used.

Convergence results in the shark and the cockroach. Supremely suited to one task.
But in grand view more like rocks and weather than species.
Humans would end up as what?
Difficult to say. But given the neural mass it would be unpleasant.

I say best used because we can now evolve as we see fit.
of all species we can control the process.
Thus my post on MI.. and cyborging.
Cyborgs are one path. man and machine joined.
genetic recoding is another but we are still too ignorant to do that well.
the psychological path. say Buddhism or collective socialism. Seems the easy way..
But is the worst
But what happens when someone does not like the system and wants to do
'their own thing' ?
The all pervading capitalism we have now is an abomination.. but it has advantage of not giving damn about individuals life.
When capitalism starts wearing black with little hats. Profits drop.
Imagine a Nazi world. that is where collective philosophy leads.
lol

So i say DIVERGE. The more variants of humans the better.
This will of course make war mote common.. but we have survived worse.
The west nuked 2 cities in '45 and no-one whined [too much]

whatever the path.. the future will be interesting.
my regret is i wont be here to watch it.

Skip wrote:What would be a better direction for human evolution - divergence or convergence?

Should people become more and more alike, over time, until there is no outsider to be prejudiced against?

Or should people become increasingly different, until each is so unique that there is no collective trait to be prejudiced against?

If human evolution can be directed by science so that prejudice is eliminated, then we will no longer be entirely human. Also, 'prejudice' might be seen as both maladaptive and adaptive. Don't humans need to be able to categorise and pre-judge for survival?

Mal-prejudgement can only be reduced.
I judge neither of the choices to be preferable. No either/or, thanks.

However...if I had to make a choice...I would lean towards convergence, at least of the way we think about any 'other'.

PS And you, Skip, what would you prefer? What is science currently offering - or hoping to offer?

I wasn't thinking of directing or making anything happen. Evolution already happens; we can't stop it. And, at any given point in time, one can perceive a trend.

We each - at least those who give a damn - have some preferences, tastes, desires and opinions about our species and where it might be going. Right now, humanity looks to me like heading for the terminal cliff - and i would prefer it didn't jump. I would prefer we dropped the self-destructive behaviours before it's too late.

One of those self-destructive behaviours is tribalism. That worked very well as long as there were few humans spread over large geography with vast resources - worked so well as to reverse the ratio: too many people on too little territory with scarce resources. And that means constant bickering. The implements with which we do our bickering now are horrendous in both their long and short-term effects. I wish we could stop using them.

I know we have the intelligence and competence to solve all of our problems. We don't do it, because it's easier to blame some rival group than seek out and fix the real causes. And that's what we'll keep doing, as long as we have prejudices for the ruthless power-freaks to exploit.

I wish we could, individually and collectively, be horrified by the use of modern weapons on men, women and children. I wish we could be repelled by the idea of causing pain and fear and grief to other people. I wish we could reject utterly any proposal to hurt, to kill, to impoverish, enslave and displace other people. I wish we could empathize.

I can't see that possible at our present stage of emotional development.

Personally, i would prefer divergence: more art.

Tribalism makes me feel ill.
literally.
the very idea of running with a pack of 'like minded'
makes me vomit.
It may have once been a viable path to survival, in this day however where the 'enemy owns near everything' skill and cunning occlude it.
A viable evolutionary path over the heard instinct
do you see W B yeats or einstien in that mass of mindless protoplasm all shouting 'burn them'
no.

Imagine a world where all were sane. i torture myself with the term from overseer in time machine
those most terrible words..

"what if'

---------------------
btw i know a lot about war and sometimes may seem to support it. this not the case." know thy enemy" is a trueism
death horror and violence are things we should i hope forget in our path to civilization.
war is a terrible thing. In australia we dont really understand it. we still mindlessly celebrate the anzacs at galipoli.
Put all those who cheer just 1 minute on slopes leading to turkish machine guns and ANZAC day would cease to exist. forever.
I have enemies because i will not be cowed.
As hope you are not

<< Imagine a world where all were sane. i torture myself with the term from overseer in time machine
those most terrible words..

"what if' >>

How are these words terrible?
Isn't that what we are doing here. Thinking 'what if...?'

<<I wasn't thinking of directing or making anything happen. Evolution already happens; we can't stop it. >>

Didn't think you were.
You mentioned science.

marjoramblues wrote:<< Imagine a world where all were sane. i torture myself with the term from overseer in time machine
those most terrible words..

"what if' >>

How are these words terrible?
Isn't that what we are doing here. Thinking 'what if...?'

'what if' man was sane. when it seems nothing will ever change.
5 thousand years and what has changed?
from sticks and thybone of an ass to fusion/fission/fusion penetrator warheads in sub orbital busses.

im just in one of those down times. Where it seems sanity is a rare thing.

<<smack me up side of head and say prill.
'get a grip'>>

As if...

...I'd dare...

what if.. you did?

i'd be happy that someone gave damn.

'poor me' yes i know.
truth be told i come to this form cause im a loner and a shutin.
i chose to be so after a life of bikes women booze drugs and sex sometimes all at once.
my ducati is having a great time hehe
poor me
such sorrow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=551_hC414UY

the pope on news today is catching up to metallica. 2 millions

Hjarloprillar wrote:what if.. you did?

i'd be happy that someone gave damn.

'poor me' yes i know.
truth be told i come to this form cause im a loner and a shutin.
i chose to be so after a life of women booze and sex.
poor me

What if...
I didn't give a damn about your happiness; that my happiness was more important ?
Why would I slap a shoe tin?
Aah...

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/shutin

My God, you learn summat new every day...