Philosophy Now Forum

Dear All

Greeting from mostly sunny London. I am a 52 year old social work student due to graduate this autumn. I found that the best and most engaging module was ethics. I really enjoyed the discussions, especially comparing and critiquing ethical theories. I like introducing into a debate the idea that motive is important and that it somehow changes the nature of the question.

However, I have also joined with a problem. I have a vague recollection that some old Greek fellow, Aristotle or Plato perhaps, has said/written something about peoples duty or obligation to society. I am trying to suggest in an essay about social work values that two things are present in an ethical dilemma regarding mentally ill people who find themselves compelled to take medication in order that they are no longer a danger to themselves and others and consequently become debilitated by the side effects of the medication. The two things I want to suggest in this essay are that it is no ones fault they are unwell and that they have a duty to society to live with the side effects, if they want to remain living in the community.

Does anyone have any idea who might have said this. I am hoping it was an old Greek as I also want to suggest that the idea of an obligation to society is so old that in many ways we take it for granted.

Here is another question. Do you think it is fair to say that the idea of society having an obligation to its citizens originates with Marxism.

Thanks all and I hope to hear from you

Stephanos

stephanos wrote:Do you think it is fair to say that the idea of society having an obligation to its citizens originates with Marxism.

If you are American you might be excused, but socialism excited before Marx ever came into existence, and before that time from west to east you had people who cultivated philosophies of brotherhood- and sisterhoods, where individuals mattered and were the fellowship as a whole had responsibilities towards its individuals.

Karl Marx was born 1818 but already in the previous century the French had declared their national motto to be "egalite, fraternite, liberte", or "equality, brotherhood, freedom", and in that sentence you'll see already 3 types of obligations: the obligation to create equality, the obligation to treat each other like brothers/sisters, and the obligation to grant people freedom (given the nature of French society and the vagueness of the word I don't really know what kind of freedom we are talking about here, whether it was a form of Freedom to Choose, or some American-style Freedom of Pursuit of Happiness, or local community freedom, freedom in the form of equality before law and freedom from absolutism and feudal authority (from kings and the like)... who knows, it's just a motto...)

That said, I don't know too much about the early socialist philosophers, and Marx is just so easily knowable because of his gigantic influence and powerful ideals he made. Can always try reading some about the History of Socialism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_socialism

stephanos wrote:...However, I have also joined with a problem. I have a vague recollection that some old Greek fellow, Aristotle or Plato perhaps, has said/written something about peoples duty or obligation to society. I am trying to suggest in an essay about social work values that two things are present in an ethical dilemma regarding mentally ill people who find themselves compelled to take medication in order that they are no longer a danger to themselves and others and consequently become debilitated by the side effects of the medication. The two things I want to suggest in this essay are that it is no ones fault they are unwell and that they have a duty to society to live with the side effects...

Greek duty to society...

check Plato's apology...

good medicinal side effects for the best society...

and they say socialized medicine is evil...

-Imp