Philosophy Now Forum

In the absence of proper government the strong will simply take from the weak.



Let's thus vote in a proper government - by pre-screening the candidates for their principles, in a real attempt to find out if they are, and will remain in the face of temptation, ethical.

Let's work for basic reform. Let's work hard to enable people to have convenient access to the ballot box - the next civil rights movement.

Let's go to whitehouse.gov and sign the relevant petition:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petiti ... s/qR9hdnXw Signing up is the least we can do.

While at that site, be sure to sign the petition about 501c4 status, requesting the President to order the IRS to give tax-exempt status only to organization that are exclusively engaged in social welfare projects. https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petiti ... d/5kxvCt9s

We may have to revive something akin to either the Occupy Movement, or to the original Civil Rights Movement, to aid people in certain states (like Texas, Florida, and Pennsylvania) to be able to register to vote - and for student I.D. cards to be acceptable as identification.

Get active!!



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Also, to become a more morally-efficient person, and develop your capacities to their full potential, check out this site, and reach Level Four:

http://www.amindforsuccess.com


One manages to get to that level by completing the entire course.

As the Oracle at Delphi told Socrates: KNOW YOURSELF.

You will find, after you have had the full experience, that it was well worth it


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prof wrote:In the absence of proper government the strong will simply take from the weak.

You assume that human beings are basically greedy? Do you think that coercion and pressure is what keeps the society together? Or do you think that perhaps the spirit of the individuals in society helps make it civilized?

Because in the case of the later, it would extend into the absence of government. I don't imagine myself stop showing basic respect and all other kinds of virtues just because there's no authority. I might practice a different ethics then, in the absence of law and authority, I might do things I would otherwise not be allowed to, like taking mild hallucinogens or mild soothing drugs, but it would still be an adherence to ethics and most basic principles of goodwill, friendship among fellows, and a sense of and respect for; humaneness.

If some people tried to be nasty, I would likely form bonds with people similar-minded like myself and alliances across loosely similar groups of communities, and form this a defence against intrusive behaviour and a basic unspoken law of respect among the groups. I don't think humans would be able to let go of government, at least entirely, I think sporadic government would arise as basic deals are made and upheld by law-like coercive forces, which in its most basic attempt would probably be thugs or group-wide coercion towards individuals or other groups.

"civilized?"

This, what we are in now, is 'civilized'?

Your definition is so far below mine that if yours exploded. I would not hear the sound for 3 days. [love that movie quote]

You have a good heart, and believe in humanity.
You like most however classify all as human in a basic way.

Compassion, love, empathy.
While i do not.[believe so]
A % of humans do not have these traits. And thus i'm a believer in nature over nurture by default.
Some people are like the genetically slow. What was once classified as cretin or moron but is now in this vanilla society..'challenged'.

Genetically evil foul beasts that require one thing. A bullet in the head.
Exist in large numbers.
And behind them is greater numbers of nurture based horror.

I paraphrase
"Some are born evil.
And some have evil thrust upon them. And thus nurture and a weakness of character or brains has created
self made men. "

Prill

Choosing ethical representatives won't help much. If you throw a white blanket in a vat of blue dye, it will turn blue in short order - even if the very center of the fibres are still white, you won't see them.

The problem is not human greed or human evil: both exist, neither will disappear without a long, long breeding-out process. But they're only part of human nature. The only reason they dominate is the only reason any trait can dominate - because we allow domination itself. The problem is power. Immerse any human in power and s/he'll be corrupted, to some degree.

If you don't give them power, they can't hurt you.
Don't follow their orders. Don't work for them. Don't carry their guns. Don't salute. Don't kneel. Don't grovel. Don't give them the ridiculous idea that they are somehow superior to the people on whom they depend - for everything.

How to choose administrators: like American idol.
Make the auditions open to all, and make the candidates compete by giving speeches on set subjects, in front of a panel of judges (say, a history professor, a sociologist, a philosopher and a psychologist, of various colours and genders), the ten finalists to be voted on by the general public.

And even then, don't give them the keys to the bank and the missile silos, okay?

Hey there, friends

Check out this site. You may want to join the Peace Alliance as a way to take action. This is applied ethics at its best:

http://www.thepeacealliance.org/2013-gl ... c3zjNhU1ac

Canada is #8 - that's not bad for a country this close, geographically, politically, economically and culturally, to the USA.
I wish we could keep it up.

Also see the OECD Quality of Life Index (a.k.a. The Happiness Index) for each nation here:

http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topi ... isfaction/

They explain how they measured it.


These indices provide evidence that quality can be quantified; in fact, every time a student gets a grade values are being given quantification - albeit sometimes in a rough measure ...akin, in a way, to saying a forest is thin.


...but I digress into the theoretical. This thread is about taking action to apply Ethics in practice.

One sure way is to create value at every opportunity especially when confronted with a difficult individual in a conflict situation. This takes some skill but "the right kind of practice makes perfect." So learn how to generate ethical and moral value. Peter Demerest and his Axiogenics lessons have good ideas in this area. Such self-development is worth pursuing. Be and become everything you can be

Skip wrote: If you don't give them power, they can't hurt you.
Don't follow their orders. Don't work for them. Don't carry their guns. Don't salute. Don't kneel.

Skip

And thus my post on other thread about being humble.
Is directly linked to this.
While i do spout crap sometimes. . Being humble is simply not in my philosophy of life.
I would rather die than kneel before a person who gained power from deceit theft murder lies or the true crux, having more guns.
[if the situation allowed no later alternative.]

I oft do really whacky things that set people off.
I rang the terroist hotline and said. you people are stupid. This is australia. there has never been a terrorist bomb attack here.. are you americans?
As far as i know there is only one force that can destroy australia in a heart beat. it is the USN.
Maybe i should hack the ohio class subs and retask them..

The next day 2 policemen showed up at my door..
" did you say this"?
yes
did you say this. 'yes'
can we come in your house.. ? No.
Are you a terrorist. 'only if i frighten you'.

your a goddam smartass you know that. yes.

Then i waited. after a while they wandered off to where policemen go..
Surely the higher ups had sent them on a fools errand. And they were not happy at my equanimity.
I respect the police. they have a shitty job.
Oft they can go too far.
power does this as skip suggests.

the copper who did not talk was cool.. he smiled through entire meeting.A, 'i hope this gets interesting' smile.
His eyes widening with each 'yes' i dont think he had ever run into a 'perp' that was not fazed by presence of police.
His presentation and demeanor was superb. He wore the uniform like an armani suit..[and it was impeccable]
I mean how can you be fazed when you are admiring the sartorial skill of the undeniably hand tailored outfit he was wearing.
Style [detective material i thought] When they left he turned and said.ramp it down a notch matey. be well.
What was noticeable was total lack of history.. as my 'sheet' is 100% white. they had nothing to go on.
Especially as im 6,2 and tatooed.

sniker.

And im not gay. i just admire skill and presentation.

im 6,2 and tatooed.

With some police, that would be reason enough to throw you on the ground (vewy woughly!) and "trip" over you a couple, six times. I don't know about the political climate of Australia (last i heard, it was clearing a bit, compared to N. America), but the paranoid nations are swiftly losing (or edging out) the boy-scout types from police forces and replacing them with goons who get off on the black riot gear, electronic toys and license to kick down doors at 3am. Every despot needs these, and every despot finds plenty of them. If we had any smarts, we'd have bred them out of the species by now.

One of the best ALF episodes http://sharetv.org/shows/alf/episodes/107925

Any-way, don't fight them; just withhold the one thing they need: approval of their craziness.

Kurt Vonnegut wrote an essay, c. 1988, about addiction to preparation for war, and that we shouldn't put these junkies in charge of national budgets. See, lots of smart people have seen and named all these phenomena before we noticed them. Smart people come into the world, shine for a moment, then disappear. The craziness goes on and on.

Also see the OECD Quality of Life Index (a.k.a. The Happiness Index) for each nation here

Only 36 countries? Anybody more miserable than the Hungarians is in the negative, i suppose, from where it's called the Unhappiness Index. Most of the world? Not a good omen!

Skip wrote:

Also see the OECD Quality of Life Index (a.k.a. The Happiness Index) for each nation here

Only 36 countries? Anybody more miserable than the Hungarians is in the negative, i suppose, from where it's called the Unhappiness Index. Most of the world? Not a good omen!

i clicked on this thread and read your post. i have not looked at any other post.I be romania is in happy.
Because hollywood makes so many vampyre /war flics there. and US $ ROLL IN.
Romania is a whore. I should know.. my da is from Cluj.

And he is a whore for money. a big smile and a small withered greedy heart.

nurture over nature?
the apple. me.. rolled a long way , in fact grew little arms and pushed.

The 1st born son of a romanian ss traitor. Who would argue my desire to escape?

Many said.. why dont you get your dad to by you one [ like a beemer . he became very wealthy by time i was 17 or so]
Never i said owe your parents a dime. [thats 10 cents us right? or is it a nickle]

god himself said
"Do not trust to the others the romani or fakirs.
a scheckle.
For they will sell your babes in arms to the masses for lust and greed."
revelations 22. 8

Which is to say your [girl or boy] children should be locked away and your valuables hidden if a romani 'friend' drops in
to discuss 'moneys owed.'

And yes i know there are good people. It not the good people its the ratio of.
Bad science .. emotion warps my faculties.

everyone has faults

Let's thus vote in a proper government - by pre-screening the candidates for their principles, in a real attempt to find out if they are, and will remain in the face of temptation, ethical.

have you heard of lying?

by prescreening i hope you allow access to all facets of a candidates life.
Any unethical event must be examined.

We give them power. we have right to know. or they can go the hyway.

Who we let rule is a freedom we instantly negate by such idiocy as appearance. And words scripted for each event.

which makes me wonder how Gw Bush became pres.. Oh yes it was the senior calling in all his markers but the really big ones.

this guy is in mould of carlin without the raw edge. brilliant send up of bush in part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F1Re1IHzy0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buh1EOi9aHA

See, the thing is, as long as government official handle lots and lots of money, they will be corrupted, even if they were screened through the finest moral sieve before entering politics. Maybe not Vaclav Havel and a dozen others - but its very hard to resist the temptation, the pressures, the threats and bribes.

A load of cement has no value to anyone except a builder. (Okay, maybe a mass murderer with a lot of bodies to hide.) It's not worth stealing, unless you want to use it in a bridge or a house, and if you did that, it would be easy to find; easy to prove - the risk far outweighs the gain.
But if you can sell that load of cement for currency, you can buy antique wine and cars and whores. (Not sure why you'd want an antique prostitute, but tastes vary.)
With money - and the means to get more of it out of the productive people (No, I do not mean bankers and CEO's; I mean the factory and farm hands.) at the politicians' disposal, of course more cement will get converted to a very few people's high living than a lot of people's highways.

Gypsies didn't invent corruption, and god didn't write Revelation. Other than that, I quite liked the poetic rant.