Philosophy Now Forum

Does a person have to be a pessimist, outright cynic … or worse, a fan of the Book of Revelations (excluding me) to notice just how disturbingly twisted—though collective society conveniently becomes ‘morally relative’ about it—humanity, also as a collective, has been, is and especially may or even likely will become?
We have consumers arriving in large droves to pay a small fortune (again, a relative term) in exchange for receiving an obvious thrill of some sort and to some degree by the huge, silver-screen image of a person getting sliced and/or hacked to pieces … And, of course, there are other worrisome (in)humanity facts—e.g. the growing popularity of virtually bare-fisted Ultimate Fighting.
Yes, obviously there are exceptions and sometimes very many; however, exactly what are they (again, some more relative terms, but the point continues, nonetheless), a small minority, going to do? ‘Take over’ the large majority to ‘make things right’?

Greetings, Frank

I'm a Cosmic Optimist. I see humanity getting better all the time. Each new generation has a head-start over the previous generations in how intelligent their educated ones are - with exceptions, of course: in the old days, Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and Albert Einstein, among lots of others, were pretty smart. But new (social) technologies are coming along - rapidly now - that enhance self-development. World brain, TED Talks, You Tube classes, Life Coaching, etc. Even sequestration - as a device to get congressional critters to do what they didn't really care to do - is such an invention.

I see the day when, due to better education, people will know confidently 'which way is up.' That education, which will somehow finally get into the school curriculum, will teach values: it will teach that people and spirituality trump things and material; and that, in turn, actual things are superior to systems, ideologies, numbers, and bureaucratic rules that stifle progress.

Most of the verses inJohn Lennon's song "Imagine" will be taken seriously ...even if, so far, several of Robert Burns', and Friedrich Schiller's [in the last choral section of Beethoven's Ninth] suggestions haven't been.

The message of those artists and poets will get through, will penetrate the brains of people who today can't be bothered thinking about abstract ideals because they are too bogged down with making a bare living. But the day is coming when the general level of life will be more comfortable due to advances in technology. People, in general, will acquire a sense of solidarity with the human species. I see it happening. The internet has turned our planet into a global village. {Writers at this Forum, for example, may come from all over the planet, Earth.}

Just the other day I learned that an Android camera that fits in the palm can double as a camcorder and can do video production, as well as take better photos than the best professionals could 100 years ago. And Henry Ford, if he could be around today, would be very fascinated by the autos of today - especially the self-driving ones - or those powered by the sun - those with TVs, with GPS gadgets to supply a driver oral directions, those connected to the internet to supply most all the accumulated knowledge and info that mankind has ever conceived. Ford's concept of paying workers the highest-known wages of the times has pretty-much been lost in his own country - except for CEOs and hedge-fund managers - but it could one day be revived. Today, in the USA, we spend 67% of the national budget on the military (and related items) and only 4% (at most) on Education. Imagine if we spent 10% - let alone 25% - on Education ...mostly for innovative technologies and teacher pay and benefits. And if we let non-credentialed people with good ideas, who are master motivators, train teachers [even if they are not retired Principals - as Pennsylvania regulations require that they be today for such work], what kind of world would we have then? It's a small step but it would have enormous results! And what if education were free, thru the college level, for all students that show promise of being motivated learners, for all the "intellectual hoboes" that really belong in a university but who today have to work to support their family, paid for by the colleges having lots more full-scholarships available, due to it being a cultural norm that the super-wealthy and the government share in providing these grants?

What if Obama's Jobs Program were passed by Congress? Is this such a big leap? Yet if it were, the economy would quickly pull out of its slump, and the empire would not decline so fast. In conditions of Depression people get desperate, they get violent, they commit all sorts of crimes, they join terrorist organizations as recruits, some even ready to blow themselves up if called upon to be suicide-bombers for the cause.

Extreme poverty is the cause of lots of the problems we have today; very, very few well-off people become serious criminal threats. [I'm sure someone here will find an exception and hold it up in an effort to refute the sense of what I write ...just to cause trouble and confusion.] Optimists are realists, as explained in M. C. Katz & Wade Harvey - LIVING THE GOOD LIFE, which you can google - or use this link: http://tinyurl.com/28mtn56 - see pp. 44-46.

Some day the U.S. won't think it 'knows it all' and will learn from the example of Finland, Norway, Sweden, Native-American concepts, or those of any other place that has superior practices that really work for its people. It can happen.

Positive Psychology has done research on optimism, and found an abundance of benefits - including health benefits - accruing to those who have a gift for finding the good side of any event or thing ...namely, for the optimists.

Pessimists, in contrast, as R. S. Hartman has clearly explained, are a little bit sick: they name things (and situations) so that they turn out to be "bad" - under that name or label they have put on it, and thus they see only incoherence, incongruity, and upside-down values. They are to be pitied. So are the nihilists; and the cultural relativists for ethics who likely will not ever do anything constructive in building better (Ethics) theories, or finding ways of putting universal ethical standards into practice.

In spite of all that, Ethics is catching on

And we should be thankful for that.

See earlier posts here for further details, such as Steps to Value Creation, The Beautiful Simplicity of Ethical Concepts, The Natural-Logical Law of Conduct, etc.

It's nuts to think a species can just keep getting exponentially better. It's obvious our species is in a sure process of a no-return decline. Hopefully it won't be too swift.

I have just watched a program on the ABC Four Corners, on homelessness in California. It was horrific and frightening to see. The streets lined with people living and sleeping on the pavements, under bridges, no homes to go to, no shelters, spending their nights in car parks, or one room in a motel, accommodating two adults and six children. People living like this, some for two years. There are no benefits for the unemployed. What makes it even more obscene, the people of America rescued the Banks and the fat cats are still receiving their huge million dollar bonuses and the living the good life. Who is going to rescue the people of America. Will humanity get worse. If you had watched this program, the answer is yes, it will get worse.

just when you think it won't get worse .. believe me, it does! all the technological changes we consider exceptional other generation also have it .. and they called it "progress" ! but nothing really changed when it come to humanity !

I was meaning to watch this. Must check for repeats.

I think that humanity gets better, by fits and starts.
Internet will provide social control. And destroy your reputation permanently if you dare to do something really bad.
I have not entered facebook yet, but I may one day, and I will behave myself of course.
I will watch my manners.

Well nothing can be said in this regard. But still humanity will not get too worst as one can think until there is concept of education. For me the education is the only thing which can teach humans to understand the rights and duties of others not only that one will be able to think only if he has the right education.

duszek wrote:I think that humanity gets better, by fits and starts.
Internet will provide social control. And destroy your reputation permanently if you dare to do something really bad.
I have not entered facebook yet, but I may one day, and I will behave myself of course.
I will watch my manners.

I agree with you, duszek.

Nothing can stop an idea whose time has come.

The idea of life-long learning is such a concept.

America has now become a progressive-left nation although many citizens may not be aware of it: the polls show that when it comes to policies they agree with the progressives and the populists. They want sane policies.

Now they have to find ways to take the money out of politics; by having government-financed elections, with limited (and equal) TV time allocated to each candidate by law.

I hear that in some nations the election campaign time is limited to three months. Why can't the U.S. learn from those nations? It can.

Let's think constructively. Let's innovate. Get a good idea. Find out what it takes to get a Fund or a Foundation to sponsor the idea. Figure out how to get the best ethics concepts into the schools. Become a teacher yourself if you have sound values and if you are already an optimist - one who puts names on things and situations that fit ...a person who has vision.

Yeh, I think there is good reason to be optimistic, but I find I can't stomach the idea that humans are still evolving as a biological phenomenon, or worse into machines. Definitely our only room for scope is in behavioural development - treating other creatures of the earth and ourselves with quality and enduring respect, even perhaps finding a real serenity as such...

can we breed the "evil" out of the race?

we can create the perfect citizen, trained to act in accordance with the mandates of benevolence...

progress toward perfection...

progress...

tell us all of your struggle...

-Imp

Bernard wrote:Yeh, I think there is good reason to be optimistic, but I find I can't stomach the idea that humans are still evolving as a biological phenomenon, or worse into machines. Definitely our only room for scope is in behavioural development - treating other creatures of the earth and ourselves with quality and enduring respect, even perhaps finding a real serenity as such...

What a switch over

Earlier, Bernard, you were planting seeds of pessimism, just about predicting that the world (for the human species) was coming to an end, which, unfortunately, if enough people believe it, becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. {You wrote: "no-return decline." If by this you meant we are merging with the computer, why define this as a "decline." It could just as well be called "an advance." Look up the homepage of Ray Kurzweil, a futurist.}

Now I am delighted to see you have acquired the vision - the vision to see that there are good reasons for optimism; you understand that cultural evolution has replaced biological for the most part.

True, we are likely, in the future, to become cyborgs - I, for one, have 8 implants in my gums of titanium posts, enabling a full mouth of permanent teeth - and I would not object to having a computer chip injected that would give me the brain of a Dr. Watson (by IBM), so that I would not forget any important information that I ever learn. I don't think that it would be so bad.

It is still man who programs the computers. They are so helpful that they are becoming more and more "indispensable." How else could I be dialoging with someone who - for all I know - could be in New Zealand right now? (I don't even own a cell phone yet, by choice. My desktop HP, Windows XP, version 2002, with 224 GB, is good enough for me. I've only used up less than 76 GB of space in the five years I've had it.


So thank you for making my day, Bernard. You have morally grown right before our eyes. And I'm proud of you !

Thanks Prof, I was trying to clear something: by downhill decline, I mean that without the ability to evolve species tend to recede. I am speaking of sheer biological evolution, and I stay with that belief. I just can't see where the biology can go from here, nor see the need and intent for more organic improvement. I do believe though that our species has the chance of achieving for itself a graceful and wise old age, or if you like 'new age', in which values are achieved that have so far eluded us or simply have not been envisioned. Our global connectdness may just be a mere preamble toward a highly efficient communication network we can't even dream of yet... but again, I don't think we need to evolve any specialized parts for this but just make use of what's in the tool box already. Again though, thanks for your kind comment. I was being a bit hard in my first reply on this thread but I get a little upset with unreal expectations of our organic capabilities and future when what we have already is so well honed.

FrankGSterleJr wrote:Does a person have to be a pessimist, outright cynic … or worse, a fan of the Book of Revelations (excluding me) to notice just how disturbingly twisted—though collective society conveniently becomes ‘morally relative’ about it—humanity, also as a collective, has been, is and especially may or even likely will become?
We have consumers arriving in large droves to pay a small fortune (again, a relative term) in exchange for receiving an obvious thrill of some sort and to some degree by the huge, silver-screen image of a person getting sliced and/or hacked to pieces … And, of course, there are other worrisome (in)humanity facts—e.g. the growing popularity of virtually bare-fisted Ultimate Fighting.
Yes, obviously there are exceptions and sometimes very many; however, exactly what are they (again, some more relative terms, but the point continues, nonetheless), a small minority, going to do? ‘Take over’ the large majority to ‘make things right’?

I think it takes an ignorance of the long view of history. The whole family used to have a grand old time watching public executions. Mass famines were an accepted fact of existence. There was no forum of philosophy where you could openly share ideas without fear of violent reprisal. Information was largely restricted to the clergy, as there were few books to be had, and laymen were rarely able to read. Instead you had a center of officially approved theology which you had to pretend to accept if you wanted to have any chance of a social existence. "Doctors" had little to no idea what they were doing, and in many cases, actually increased your chances of dying a painful death. Irrationality and superstition abounds, and not harmless stupidities like palmistry and astrology, but foolishness that could literally get you tortured and killed, if you were unliked, eccentric, mentally ill, or simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. A complete lack of empathy (compared to today) for human beings other than immediate family was the norm. Life expectancies were around 30 years.

The poorest person in any developed nation today generally lives a longer life, with clean water and food, access to information, resources, opportunity, and a social matrix of caring and reasonable people that would dwarf that of any serf of the middle ages by several orders of magnitude. I've never understood how one could look around at their technological society and see nothing but depravity and abject suffering; things are generally far better in almost every respect for even the lowest among us socioeconomically, if we take the long view.