Philosophy Now Forum

I in no sense of the word consider my self a philosopher, I would be severely uneducated to be considered one. I have objective opinions of every issue imaginable to mankind. I have a two year technical degree as an electrician, general public education, and a father who is a physics professor who has driven me to learn and understand on my own accord. As stated, I prefer to remain objective to every issue, and those are the issues that concern me and strike me as interesting. I served in the US Army, did one tour in Iraq and will be getting out of the military in a few months. My experiences and observations in Iraq have spurred my interest in how and why western nations function as they do, employ the opinions that they do, and object to what they concieve as morally objective.


I am an advocate of freedom, my general opinion is that there should be absolute freedom for every person on this planet. That being said, I certainly understand that it is not plausible and would not equate to any sort of civilization. It's why I remain objective, even though a thought crosses my perceived moral lines or objections it is not wrong nor right. I hope to learn from everyone here and understand other peoples thoughts, and processes to every issue. I am an amateur in the sense, and would hope to be respected as such for my views change constantly, every view answers a question and raises 5 others for myself.

My experiences and observations in Iraq have spurred my interest in how and why western nations function as they do, employ the opinions that they do, and object to what they concieve as morally objective.

This seems like a perfect debut.

Perhaps you could start with...... how and why Western nations function as they do.


Welcome fella.

afella wrote:

I am an advocate of freedom, my general opinion is that there should be absolute freedom for every person on this planet.

Hi Fella and welcome to the forum! I enjoyed your post very much but I wonder what you mean by "absolute" freedom? Do you mean that people should be able to kill one another if they want? Do you mean that every person should be able to own nukes? just how far does this absolute freedom extend?

Hello afella, welcome. Along with artisticsolution I would question 'absolute freedom', to me it would seem to mean anarchy which is not a good way to organize a society. I would suggest freedom tempered with responsability.

I'm sure your experience in Iraq will bias your views on many things just as my life experience will bias my views. Jump in wherever it feels right and have a bit of a thick skinned attitude toward others on the forum, at least to start, till you get to know the different members.

How long will you be in Iraq? Twelve months? I would imagine the differences in culture would be huge. My interest is how the Eastern culture versus the Western, from your perspective. Sometimes I think the Eastern is more natural and then something horrific happens and I think "Western" hands down.

What do you think?

My views on absolute freedom are just that. Should someone be able to own a nuke, yes. That takes the discussion to an extreme. I say I am an absolutist on freedom, because I have yet to see something else that works. I personally feel that we have created a world that is insustainable, our greed will always supercede any form of government or substantial reform of a systems in place. My views on freedom are not correct, I will be the first to admit that, however growing up with virtual absolute freedom and understanding the happiness that comes with it has a major influence on the matter for myself.


I also consider myself a realist, and as such the best model for a society to function properly would be to that of Bertrand Russells, "The impact of science on society.", in my opinion. Which goes against everything I would personally stand for. While absolute freedom is attainable, it is undesireable in the sense of having a functional intelligent society. That is the formula for my opinions on freedom, it has to be as absolute as reasonably possible. If I maintain an extreme view on the freedoms of an individual, it allows for the most possible freedom for a person at any time throughout a discussion and discourse and its end result. As I do not think the establishment of a true socialist government is possible, I feel I personally have to advocate for the absolute amount of freedom which can be given to one person.


As far as I can tell western nations function from an impact of greed and power, which has stretched back to the foundations of civilization. That is my general view of why western civilizations function as they do. They also tend to function, in my opinion, as a "I know what's best for you." civilization, or colonial aspect. "I'll do what is good for myself, and F*&^ you!" policy towards the world.


My experiences in Iraq have lead me to a lot of these conclusions. I had discussed with one of the vendors on a FOB in Iraq about what he thought of the US invasion. He said, "You came into my country, you killed my uncle, my nieces, my brother and my father. Saadam is gone, it's all ok." I didn't take that what we were there for was right from his statement. I took a further appreciation of what I have, which is minimal by my own choice, and how it relates to the world in general. He said it was all fine, but it really wasn't would be my guess, somehow his confidence in the face of such adversity struck me. While he sat there and talked with me on a personal level, of his personal loss, from actions taken by my society on his. I lost my "American" spirit of greed, due to reality which few face today. Freedom also seemed to be a very new concept to them, I know historically it is new, but it was almost shocking. They were quire proud of it though, showing us their fingers after they have voted. "Al-Maliki, NO GOOD!" I heard that a lot. Self decision seems to have an impact on a person, and seeing it as a new found trait struck me.

That being said, I have always looked for answers which can pose new questions. Our evolution as a species is dependent on the continuation of asking questions, even if subtle, on any issue or discourse. That's why I am here, I am learning more and more as I read so keep that in mind. I am undereducated in the realm of philosophy in a general sense but I still have plenty of questions and answers to seek.


Thank you for the warm welcome. I hope to learn from you people, and hope you can take one or two things away from myself and my radical views .

reasonvemotion wrote:How long will you be in Iraq? Twelve months? I would imagine the differences in culture would be huge. My interest is how the Eastern culture versus the Western, from your perspective. Sometimes I think the Eastern is more natural and then something horrific happens and I think "Western" hands down.

What do you think?

The differences in culture were massive. I was thrust into a world I could not understand. To put it simply, I respected their culture for its traditions and mear existance compared to what I am used to. Iraqis were not bad people in any sense, they were the same as everyone I know and love. It was an eye opening experience, and I did right by almost every action I took while I was in country. I was there 2009-2010, 9 months total.

It truely struck my how large of a difference there is between the west and the east. it's absolutely massive.

It was an eye opening experience, and I did right by almost every action I took while I was in country

The only reason Americans invaded Iraq was purely for the oil. The first thing they did there was build a complex as big as the Vatican and surrounded the oil fields, destroyed their infrastructure and gave the people food for oil.

UNSCOM's principal weapons inspector, Dr. Rod Barton from Australia, went into Iraq, found nothing, no evidence of production, came back with a report and America ignored it. The invasion went ahead and of course no weapons were found. Bush lied. He had a secret agenda, oil. He lied to the people.

So one could say, America has secured their oil reserves, until it runs out. At the cost of many many innocent lives.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mWtWz_aGyk



I don't think the average American knows what's going on. Is this intentional by their government?



You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.
Abraham Lincoln


You think this is a little outdated.

reasonvemotion wrote: "You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time."
Abraham Lincoln

I thought that quote was attributed to P. T, Barnum, but apparently it has been misattributed to several people.

reasonvemotion wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mWtWz_aGyk

I don't think the average American knows what's going on. Is this intentional by their government?

I can explain that, well sort of. When I taught school there were occasions when a student failed a class and would have had to repeat the grade, but somehow the grade was changed to a passing grade and the student went to the next grade. I didn't need to, my class was so dead easy that anyone could pass it. But sometimes the adminstration, or guidance, or maybe even the teacher, just didn't want to see the student again and pushed them through, which would explain the people on the video. I also noted that they didn't show anyone who got the questions right, a bit of editing to make a point?

Name a country that starts with a "U"......................... ummmmm

I can explain that, well sort of. When I taught school there were occasions when a student failed a class and would have had to repeat the grade, but somehow the grade was changed to a passing grade and the student went to the next grade.

Oooh, that explains it.

reasonvemotion wrote: Name a country that starts with a "U"......................... ummmmm

I can see where this would be a problem with some people. In the United States many people think of themselves as Americans living in America, and the United States is not the first thing they think of. The United Kingdom is another that is also called Great Britain or England, so being a country that starts with U might not occur to them right away. The other countries that start with U are not as well known to most people. Uganda and Uruguay have been around for awhile but Ukraine and Uzbekistan are more recient.

thedoc wrote:

reasonvemotion wrote: Name a country that starts with a "U"......................... ummmmm

I can see where this would be a problem with some people. In the United States many people think of themselves as Americans living in America, and the United States is not the first thing they think of. The United Kingdom is another that is also called Great Britain or England, so being a country that starts with U might not occur to them right away. The other countries that start with U are not as well known to most people. Uganda and Uruguay have been around for awhile but Ukraine and Uzbekistan are more recient.

Hi Doc,

It's nice that you want to explain why we should not take these type of video's seriously...but I don't think it will help people to not be prejudice. People like to find a reason to find a reason to feel superior...it makes them feel better about themselves.

Hello Artisticsolution, Prejudice will find a way no matter what. I think it is a survival instinct from our more primitive ancestors. Perhaps the Human race will mature, someday, to understand that we are all human beings, and humanity is just another part of life on Earth.

Have you ever seen the movie 'The Lathe of Heaven'?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lathe_of_Heaven_(film)

Hi TheDoc (do you mind if I call you Doc?)

I have not seen that film but it sounds like something I would be interested in....I will make a point to see it if I can.

There was a contributor on this forum years ago who once told me something along the lines of, "we are only equal in our humanity." He put it much more eloquently than I...but I loved the thought of it...that the course of each man individually will never be equal....as one can be stupid, another intelligent...one can be physically weak, another strong...one rich, one poor...but in their humanity they are all equal....and that is all that should matter for arguments sake.

I love the blatant honesty in that sentiment. Then I wonder....when philosophers make an argument...is that a common axiom? The fact that we are all equal in our humanity? Do you think that is the ultimate stake to any problem and solution?

And in your film...was the most frightening thing that Orr could not think of a solution that did not have a axiom of negativity? I wonder if there is one of us who could produce a dream with a more positive outcome? If instead of trying not to dream....and instead trying to dream smarter...or kinder? Or maybe it is not in us? Have you ever had a lucid dream where you try to do something fun...like fly as fast as you can...but then it becomes uncontrollable and it becomes a nightmare? Maybe it is impossible for us to think of positive possibilities without the negative ones overcoming us somehow?