Philosophy Now Forum

Walker wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 4:37 pm
What does the bible say that blasphemy, is?

Does it say thou must not call Jesus a wanker?

What does the bible say happens to blasphemers?

Does it say they will be frowned on by Walker?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 4:40 pmIt's always one's own choice what ideas one decides to believe.

Well said.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 4:40 pmNow, I agree that access to information is becoming a problem, especially as the major media are becoming so partisan and dishonest in their reportage.

Isn't that just an idea you choose to believe?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 4:40 pmBut even so, it's not hard to disbelieve most of what they say, because contrary facts remain available.

Who is feeding you contrary facts, and why are they more reliable than "major media"?

Harbal wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:01 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 4:37 pm
What does the bible say that blasphemy, is?

Does it say thou must not call Jesus a wanker?

What does the bible say happens to blasphemers?

Does it say they will be frowned on by Walker?

I smell roses.

Stick with the ideas that seem right to you Henry. The points I have made seem true enough to me that they require no further discussion (on my part). IMO the “proofs” are common and myriad — though in that area you’ll have to do your own research.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:49 pm Stick with the ideas that seem right to you Henry. The points I have made seem true enough to me that they require no further discussion (on my part). IMO the “proofs” are common and myriad — though in that area you’ll have to do your own research.

Instead, I'll stick with the reality of man bein' self-directing and morally self-responsible and leave you to warring against shadows on the wall (ideas as tyrannical).

Walker wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 4:54 pm ...I am interested in you telling me the Christian doctrine of what blasphemy is, and what happens to blasphemers.

I just did.

Did you not read my last message?

What wasn't clear?

tillingborn wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:03 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 4:40 pmIt's always one's own choice what ideas one decides to believe.

Well said.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 4:40 pmNow, I agree that access to information is becoming a problem, especially as the major media are becoming so partisan and dishonest in their reportage.

Isn't that just an idea you choose to believe?

Well, a thinking person doesn't just "choose to believe," as if "belief" were some kind of wish or imagining. He observes, considers the data, uses reason, and so forth, to make his convictions the most plausible and rational they can be.

That's how rational beliefs are formed and held. But I don't need to tell you that, I'm sure.

When, say, the major media say one thing -- like, "Hunter Biden's laptop was a fake," or "certain vaxxes (J&J, AZ) are good," or "Russia fixed our last elections," and then later are exposed as having lied about these things, and actually have to reverse themselves, then a rational person knows they lied, and are self-condemned as either fools or deceivers.

Then he has data and reasons for becoming suspicious of the major media. And when they do it over and over, and always on the same side of the political spectrum, it seems...then a rational person begins to ask serious questions about who's behind the major media, and about the impartiality of their intentions.

None of that is "just an idea one chooses to believe." It's the testimony of the evidence, and in fact, of the liars themselves.

Who is feeding you contrary facts, and why are they more reliable than "major media"?

The major media themselves are.

Like I said...it's when they have to reverse or retract statements they offered as categorically certain, or theories they floated based on no evidence, or conclusions they tried to force the public but are now debunked, then they have testified against themselves.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:24 pm

tillingborn wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:03 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 4:40 pmIt's always one's own choice what ideas one decides to believe.

Well said.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 4:40 pmNow, I agree that access to information is becoming a problem, especially as the major media are becoming so partisan and dishonest in their reportage.

Isn't that just an idea you choose to believe?

Well, a thinking person doesn't just "choose to believe," as if "belief" were some kind of wish or imagining. He observes, considers the data, uses reason, and so forth, to make his convictions the most plausible and rational they can be.

You would love to think that for yourself, but its not true.

You are just a run of the mill uncritical product of the country you were born into and have received the most banal set of endemic assumptions.
Had you been born elsewhere such as Saudi Arabia or Iran, there is not doubt in my mind that you would just be a rabid Muslim fundamentalist.

Real thinkers are the ones who despite their indoctrination reject such ideas with reason.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:49 pm You would love to think that for yourself...

I wasn't just speaking of myself.

I was describing how it works.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:49 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:24 pm

tillingborn wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:03 pm Well said.
Isn't that just an idea you choose to believe?

Well, a thinking person doesn't just "choose to believe," as if "belief" were some kind of wish or imagining. He observes, considers the data, uses reason, and so forth, to make his convictions the most plausible and rational they can be.

You would love to think that for yourself, but its not true.

You are just a run of the mill uncritical product of the country you were born into and have received the most banal set of endemic assumptions.

Had you been born elsewhere such as Saudi Arabia or Iran, there is not doubt in my mind that you would just be a rabid Muslim fundamentalist.

My emphasis.

Perfect!

Sculptor in a nutshell!!

Here he and I are in sync. One's religious convictions are rooted existentially in dasein. You are "thrown" adventitiously at birth into a particular historical and cultural and interpersonal vat of variables. You are then indoctrinated as a child to be a Christian or a Muslim or a Jew or a Hindu or a Shinto. You then become a more autonomous adult [in a free will world] and you accumulate personal experiences that either reinforce this One True Path or predispose you to another. Or to a No God at all One True Path.

But then this part:

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:49 pmReal thinkers are the ones who despite their indoctrination reject such ideas with reason.

Which, from me, prompts this:

There he goes again: pontificating.

The actual topic of discussion can be anything -- God, politics, determinism.

It's not what he argues...it's the contempt he shows for those who refuse to argue exactly as he does.

The contemptuous "real thinkers" bit. Contemptuous because, in my view, by real thinkers he means those who think about God and religion [here] exactly as he does. He's just IC on the other end of the spectrum. IC quotes the Christian Bible and Sculptor quotes himself. His reasonable arguments that go around and around philosophically in circles.

iambiguous wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 7:29 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:49 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:24 pm
Well, a thinking person doesn't just "choose to believe," as if "belief" were some kind of wish or imagining. He observes, considers the data, uses reason, and so forth, to make his convictions the most plausible and rational they can be.

You would love to think that for yourself, but its not true.

You are just a run of the mill uncritical product of the country you were born into and have received the most banal set of endemic assumptions.

Had you been born elsewhere such as Saudi Arabia or Iran, there is not doubt in my mind that you would just be a rabid Muslim fundamentalist.

My emphasis.

Perfect!

Sculptor in a nutshell!!

Here he and I are in sync. One's religious convictions are rooted existentially in dasein. You are "thrown" adventitiously at birth into a particular historical and cultural and interpersonal vat of variables. You are then indoctrinated as a child to be a Christian or a Muslim or a Jew or a Hindu or a Shinto. You then become a more autonomous adult [in a free will world] and you accumulate personal experiences that either reinforce this One True Path or predispose you to another. Or to a No God at all One True Path.

But then this part:

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:49 pmReal thinkers are the ones who despite their indoctrination reject such ideas with reason.

Which, from me, prompts this:

There he goes again: pontificating.

The actual topic of discussion can be anything -- God, politics, determinism.

It's not what he argues...it's the contempt he shows for those who refuse to argue exactly as he does.

The contemptuous "real thinkers" bit. Contemptuous because, in my view, by real thinkers he means those who think about God and religion [here] exactly as he does. He's just IC on the other end of the spectrum. IC quotes the Christian Bible and Sculptor quotes himself. His reasonable arguments that go around and around philosophically in circles.

You can always be relied on to talk your own perfectly "unique" band of gibberish.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 7:52 pm

iambiguous wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 7:29 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:49 pm

You would love to think that for yourself, but its not true.

You are just a run of the mill uncritical product of the country you were born into and have received the most banal set of endemic assumptions.

Had you been born elsewhere such as Saudi Arabia or Iran, there is not doubt in my mind that you would just be a rabid Muslim fundamentalist.

My emphasis.

Perfect!

Sculptor in a nutshell!!

Here he and I are in sync. One's religious convictions are rooted existentially in dasein. You are "thrown" adventitiously at birth into a particular historical and cultural and interpersonal vat of variables. You are then indoctrinated as a child to be a Christian or a Muslim or a Jew or a Hindu or a Shinto. You then become a more autonomous adult [in a free will world] and you accumulate personal experiences that either reinforce this One True Path or predispose you to another. Or to a No God at all One True Path.

But then this part:

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:49 pmReal thinkers are the ones who despite their indoctrination reject such ideas with reason.

Which, from me, prompts this:

There he goes again: pontificating.

The actual topic of discussion can be anything -- God, politics, determinism.

It's not what he argues...it's the contempt he shows for those who refuse to argue exactly as he does.

The contemptuous "real thinkers" bit. Contemptuous because, in my view, by real thinkers he means those who think about God and religion [here] exactly as he does. He's just IC on the other end of the spectrum. IC quotes the Christian Bible and Sculptor quotes himself. His reasonable arguments that go around and around philosophically in circles.

You can always be relied on to talk your own perfectly "unique" band of gibberish.

Just don't put me in the "penalty box"!!!!!

Regarding Dasein.

Reason leads towards insight into one's prejudices and fixed ideas. Dasein is a moving state.

Dubious wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 7:54 am …

I’ll have some comments as soon as I return to our shared planet.

Meanwhile

A blasphemer is one who disrespects god each time he takes His name in vain BUT a blasphemer can also be a radical truth teller...which happens all the time.