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Re: WOKE and proud of it....

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2024 2:20 pm
by Immanuel Can
phyllo wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 11:53 am And when his 'fans' compare him to the messiah, he doesn't deny it or repudiate it.
Provide your citation, please. This strikes me as made-up. I don't think anybody does this.

And if somebody did, how can you argue that Trump "doesn't" say something, therefore he means to affirm the opposite? :shock: That's like saying, "Somebody accused phyllo of making pastry, and he never said anything about that, therefore, he makes pastry." :shock:

Re: WOKE and proud of it....

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2024 4:40 pm
by phyllo
In a series of tweets Wednesday morning, Mr. Trump quoted conservative radio host and known conspiracy theorist Wayne Allyn Root, who practically declared the president the Messiah during his show Tuesday night.

Quoting Root, Mr. Trump shared the message that he is "the greatest President for Jews and for Israel in the history of the world," that "the Jewish people in Israel love him like he's the King of Israel" and even that "They love him like he is the second coming of God."

Mr. Trump said "Wow!" and thanked Root for the "very nice words."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-twee ... in-israel/

Re: WOKE and proud of it....

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2024 4:56 pm
by Immanuel Can
phyllo wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 4:40 pm
In a series of tweets Wednesday morning, Mr. Trump quoted conservative radio host and known conspiracy theorist Wayne Allyn Root, who practically declared the president the Messiah during his show Tuesday night. [/quote

Quoting Root, Mr. Trump shared the message that he is "the greatest President for Jews and for Israel in the history of the world," that "the Jewish people in Israel love him like he's the King of Israel" and even that "They love him like he is the second coming of God."

Mr. Trump said "Wow!" and thanked Root for the "very nice words."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-twee ... in-israel/
Well, your Mr. Root, who is called a "conspiracy theorist" by the Leftist press, is obviously not typical of anybody, and is over-the-top. He's certainly being hyperbolical in the extreme, for sure.

At the same time, he's right about Trump having been the best US President for Israel's sake so far, and he says that love for him is "like" (note: "like" always designates a metaphor, not something literal...but you know that, I'm sure) what one would expect for some more exalted figure. He's plausibly quite right about the exceptional enthusiasm for him present in Israel. And why not? Trump moved the American embassy to Jerusalem (a thing Obama promised, but failed to do), thus recognizing the Jewish capital for what it is, and he established the Abraham Accords, which were the closest to a peace treaty that Israel has come. Why shouldn't they be pleased? However, I agree with you that the language chosen by Mr. Root is sensationalistic and excessive.

But is it typical? Not at all. And as for Trump's response, I can't see how saying that those words are "very nice" is anything but a very subdued understatement. What you want him to have said, but that he never said, is something like, "Yes...I'm the Messiah." But there's nothing in that exchange that invites your ignoring the hyperbole and metaphor, on the part of Mr. Root, or the rather deferential and understated response by Trump.

What's evident is that you're trying to make something where it isn't. Have you got anything better?

Re: WOKE and proud of it....

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2024 5:32 pm
by Alexis Jacobi
Image
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 4:56 pm What's evident is that you're trying to make something where it isn't. Have you got anything better?
You will have to access different sites, mostly by *lower order* Trump supporters and fanatics where he is very clearly described as some sort of messenger or agent of God.

Phyllo is not *making something up* but is reporting on a real phenomenon. And among Israelis he has been acclaimed as a modern Cyrus.

See here.

And here.

Here.

Here.

You can find dozens of fanatics on Rumble and Bitchute with video presentations to this effect.

Obviously, many people interpret political events in the USA -- and certainly in the ME -- through Bible-tropes.

Re: WOKE and proud of it....

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2024 5:53 pm
by Immanuel Can
Alexis Jacobi wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 5:32 pm You will have to access different sites, mostly by *lower order* Trump supporters and fanatics
And how many such are there? How many of these "lower order" types, and how many "middle" or "higher order" Trump supporters?

Unless we can establish that this opinion is both literal (as opposed to metaphorical, or even merely intended as a joke, which we must surely exclude), and that it pertains to at least a significant constitutency, then I'm afraid you're just digging in the dirt.

So what have you got on the numbers of people who literally believe Trump to be the Messiah?

And checking your websites:

None contains the graphic above...where did you get it from? Unless we know, we don't know if it's supposed to be a joke or not. It sure looks like a joke...or an intended Leftist accusation, perhaps.

Three mention Cyrus, but no Messiah. Cyrus was a pagan king who was favourable to Israel. That kind of fits, actually. But where is your proof for phyllo's "Messiah"?

So no, I don't believe you that phyllo hasn't got this all wrong, unless you can give us something much better than this.

Re: WOKE and proud of it....

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2024 5:57 pm
by Harbal
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 4:56 pm

Well, your Mr. Root, who is called a "conspiracy theorist" by the Leftist press, is obviously not typical of anybody,
It's not as if Root even sounds Scottish. 😏

Re: WOKE and proud of it....

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2024 5:58 pm
by Immanuel Can
Harbal wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 5:57 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 4:56 pm

Well, your Mr. Root, who is called a "conspiracy theorist" by the Leftist press, is obviously not typical of anybody,
It's not as if Root even sounds Scottish. 😏
Hey, it's the Lefties who are telling us not to base anything on what he says. Isn't that what "conspiracy theorist" means? :shock:

Re: WOKE and proud of it....

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2024 6:01 pm
by Harbal
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 5:58 pm
Harbal wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 5:57 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 4:56 pm

Well, your Mr. Root, who is called a "conspiracy theorist" by the Leftist press, is obviously not typical of anybody,
It's not as if Root even sounds Scottish. 😏
Hey, it's the Lefties who are telling us not to base anything on what he says. Isn't that what "conspiracy theorist" means? :shock:
Don't ask me; I'm just observing at the moment.

Re: WOKE and proud of it....

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2024 6:01 pm
by Immanuel Can
Harbal wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 6:01 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 5:58 pm
Harbal wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 5:57 pm

It's not as if Root even sounds Scottish. 😏
Hey, it's the Lefties who are telling us not to base anything on what he says. Isn't that what "conspiracy theorist" means? :shock:
Don't ask me; I'm just observing at the moment.
Well, maybe you should observe aptly. That might be better. 8)

Re: WOKE and proud of it....

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2024 6:07 pm
by phyllo
You will have to access different sites, mostly by *lower order* Trump supporters and fanatics where he is very clearly described as some sort of messenger or agent of God.
You don't need to go that far:
Republican congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene compared former president Donald Trump to Jesus over the weekend, leaving some in America’s political ecosphere scratching their heads over the comparison, baffled as to how she sees Trump, now a convicted felon, as Christ-like.

She was speaking at a rally for Trump in Las Vegas on Sunday, railing against his recent conviction for covering up a 2016 payment to adult film star Stormy Daniels to help his electoral chances.

“The Democrats and the fake news media want to constantly talk about, ‘Oh, President Trump is a convicted felon,’” Greene told Trump supporters. “Well, you want to know something? The man that I worship is also a convicted felon, and he was murdered on a Roman cross.”

Greene, a well-documented conspiracy theorist who often brings her religious beliefs to the microphone, has compared Trump to Jesus before.

Last year, after Trump was arrested, she likened him to not just the Messiah but South African President Nelson Mandela, as well.

“Trump is joining some of the most incredible people in history being arrested today. Nelson Mandela was arrested, served time in prison. Jesus was arrested and murdered by the Roman government,” she said at the time, according to The Guardian.

“There have been many people throughout history that have been arrested and persecuted by radical, corrupt governments.… I just can’t believe it’s happening, but I’ll always support him. He’s done nothing wrong.”

On Sunday, critics were incredulous that Greene could draw a line between Trump’s hush-money payments and the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.
https://globalnews.ca/news/10557067/mar ... ump-jesus/
WASHINGTON (AP) — For the most devoted Trump conspiracy theorists, there are no coincidences and timing is everything.

So when ex-President Donald Trump was arraigned Tuesday on charges that he falsified business records to obscure hush money payments in an effort to influence the 2016 election, some of his most ardent followers quickly noted the court appearance came during Christianity’s most sacred week, Holy Week, when many Christians commemorate Christ’s crucifixion and resurrection.

“Seems there was someone else who was tortured and crucified this week,” read one post on Gab, a platform popular with Trump supporters. A similar post on Telegram put Trump’s case in apocalyptic terms: “Good vs Evil. Biblical times. Divine timing.”

Comparisons likening Trump to Christ were among the top online narratives about the Republican former president and his criminal charges circulating in the last several days, according to an analysis of online and social media content conducted by Zignal Labs, a media intelligence firm, on behalf of The Associated Press.

Zignal’s analysis found tens of thousands of mentions calling Trump a martyr. The number more than doubled immediately after Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, R-Ga., linked the prosecution of Trump to the persecution of Christ during an interview.

Trump pleaded not guilty on Tuesday to 34 felony counts alleging he hid payments made during his 2016 presidential campaign to two women — an adult-film actor and a former Playboy model — who claimed they had sexual encounters with him, as well as to a Trump Tower doorman who claimed to have a story about a child Trump fathered out of wedlock.

Greene, who traveled to New York City to protest Trump’s arraignment, noted the timing of the arraignment during a broadcast interview before bringing up the Christ comparison.

“Jesus was arrested and murdered by the Roman government,” she said. “There have been many people throughout history that have been arrested and persecuted by radical corrupt governments, and it’s beginning today in New York City.”

The comparison was denounced by Episcopal Bishop Reginald T. Jackson, who oversees more than 500 churches in Greene’s home state and called her comments blasphemous and disgusting.

“While Marjorie Taylor Greene may put her political loyalty ahead of God, Christians do not,” Jackson said. “Those of faith believe Christ always has, and always will, stand alone.”

Trump’s personal, political and professional history make him an odd choice to stand in for Christ, Christianity’s savior and central figure. Yet it’s an outgrowth from Christian nationalism, a movement that fuses traditional Christian themes and imagery with conservative candidates like Trump, according to John Fea, a historian at Messiah University in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, who has researched evangelical Christianity’s role in American history.

“They see this as spiritual warfare, and Trump is on the side of the angels,” Fea said. “In this view, Trump is politically a savior, he is going to restore America, and he will rise from the ashes in November despite the persecution and the suffering.”

Trump has encouraged such beliefs by claiming he is uniquely qualified to lead the country, by calling his 2024 campaign to retake the White House a “Final Battle” against his enemies and by praising QAnon, a movement that views him as a crusader against what it says is a secret, child-sacrificing cabal that controls world events.

He embraced the role of martyr again on Tuesday, when his campaign created a fake mug shot and included it in a fundraising email, even though no mug shot of the former president was taken that day.

In the Christian nationalist view, Trump’s return to New York could be seen as an echo of Christ’s triumphant entry to Jerusalem on Palm Sunday, Fea said, with the exception that Christ rode a donkey and Trump arrived in a motorcade.
https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump ... 188badcd1d

Re: WOKE and proud of it....

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2024 6:24 pm
by Harbal
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 6:01 pm
Harbal wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 6:01 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 5:58 pm
Hey, it's the Lefties who are telling us not to base anything on what he says. Isn't that what "conspiracy theorist" means? :shock:
Don't ask me; I'm just observing at the moment.
Well, maybe you should observe aptly. That might be better. 8)
I'm afraid what I see is out of my control.

Re: WOKE and proud of it....

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2024 6:31 pm
by Alexis Jacobi
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 5:53 pm ....
Sorry Old Bean, I am not interested in proving what is evident and therefore true. This is one of those cases where you double-down on some negation that you make, God knows why. In this case of Phyllo's assertion and now mine. If I assented you'd go on and on and on.

Trump is portrayed as a manifestation of a Biblical figure among people steeped in these stories. The question is of degree and then how *seriously* they take themselves.

Re: WOKE and proud of it....

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2024 6:37 pm
by Harbal
Alexis Jacobi wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 6:31 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 5:53 pm ....
Sorry Old Bean, I am not interested in proving what is evident and therefore true. This is one of those cases where you double-down on some negation that you make, God knows why. In this case of Phyllo's assertion and now mine.
And as confirmed by my observations.

Re: WOKE and proud of it....

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2024 6:55 pm
by Immanuel Can
Harbal wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 6:24 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 6:01 pm
Harbal wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 6:01 pm

Don't ask me; I'm just observing at the moment.
Well, maybe you should observe aptly. That might be better. 8)
I'm afraid what I see is out of my control.
Well, your vision might need a checkup. :roll:

Re: WOKE and proud of it....

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2024 6:59 pm
by Immanuel Can
Alexis Jacobi wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 6:31 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 5:53 pm ....
Sorry Old Bean, I am not interested in proving what is evident and therefore true.
If it's "evident," then there's evidence. If there's no evidence, it's not "evident." That's what's truly "evident." :roll:
Trump is portrayed as a manifestation of a Biblical figure among people steeped in these stories.

"Biblical figure"? Not "Messiah," evidently. Maybe "Cyrus."

You've got your story all wrong. You seem not to know the difference between one Biblical figure and another. You can't prove that Trump is posing as "Messiah" while you are only referring to "Cyrus." That much is also evident.

Geez. This isn't rocket science, AJ. If you had any evidence, you'd have provided it.

And from where did you get the illustration, "Old Bean"...you conveniently neglected to say... :roll: