New Discovery

[peacegirl]

Belinda, I didn't see your thoughts regarding farm animals.

Empathy towards farm animals will mean not breeding food animals either for dairy or flesh eating. Kindness towards food animals inevitably involves more expensive food. Kindness towards animals involves no dairy food whatsoever. Dairy food is obtained by stealing mothers' milk from baby calves who are then cruelly used or destroyed.

peacegirl wrote:
As far as breeding animals for dairy or flesh eating, it would be done with loving care toward these animals. The cruelty that exists in how animals are raised is heartbreaking but that is because people have become insensitive to their plight due to their own need to survive. They have been compelled to believe that animals are just property with no feelings, or they couldn't do what they do. But this will change in due time when people won't have to save money by cutting shortcuts such as cramping animals into small cages and other inhumane practices.

[Eodnhoj7]

I think the obvious statement to this whole thread is this:

The author seeks to reveal that all is determined in an effort to bring world peace, or at least ease suffering, unknowing that if what the author presents is true, ie everything is determined, then the chaos exhibited in this thread is determined as well thus nulliifying the vision of a universally accepted determinism being a means for peace.

Is there something I am missing?

You're missing the fact that determinism can be proven true, without exception. I don't consider everything exhibited in this thread as chaos, but, yes, everything is determined including the arguments in this thread. To conclude that this thread somehow nullifies the vision of a universally accepted determinism being the means for peace implies that there is no universally accepted determinism that exists. This is where you've gone off the rails.

Determinism yes. Pure determinism no.

Pure determinism is a meaningless concept by degree of an absence of any contrast against free will. In a purely deterministic universe you fail to see contradiction as necessitated as it is determined to exist.

Proof is merely interpretation, it is a subjective non-universal state of awareness.

[peacegirl]

I think the obvious statement to this whole thread is this:

The author seeks to reveal that all is determined in an effort to bring world peace, or at least ease suffering, unknowing that if what the author presents is true, ie everything is determined, then the chaos exhibited in this thread is determined as well thus nulliifying the vision of a universally accepted determinism being a means for peace.

Is there something I am missing?

You're missing the fact that determinism can be proven true, without exception. I don't consider everything exhibited in this thread as chaos, but, yes, everything is determined including the arguments in this thread. To conclude that this thread somehow nullifies the vision of a universally accepted determinism being the means for peace implies that there is no universally accepted determinism that exists. This is where you've gone off the rails.

Determinism yes. Pure determinism no.

Pure determinism is a meaningless concept by degree of an absence of any contrast against free will. In a purely deterministic universe you fail to see contradiction as necessitated as it is determined to exist.

Proof is merely interpretation, it is a subjective non-universal state of awareness.

We either have free will or we don't. It has nothing to do with a subjective non-universal state of awareness. Moving in the direction of greater satisfaction IS A UNIVERSAL LAW WITH NO EXCEPTIONS.

[Walker]

WITH NO EXCEPTIONS.

Garbage men?

(Sanitation workers, for dignity)

[peacegirl]

WITH NO EXCEPTIONS.

Garbage men?

(Sanitation workers, for dignity)

What do you mean by "garbage men", "sanitation workers, for dignity"?

[Walker]

WITH NO EXCEPTIONS.

Garbage men?

(Sanitation workers, for dignity)

What do you mean by "garbage men", "sanitation workers, for dignity"?

Would they be an exception to the rule of always moving in the direction of greater satisfaction?

[Walker]

She’s singing to God, you know.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw9RVjEN9OI&lis ... eRefresh=1

[Eodnhoj7]

You're missing the fact that determinism can be proven true, without exception. I don't consider everything exhibited in this thread as chaos, but, yes, everything is determined including the arguments in this thread. To conclude that this thread somehow nullifies the vision of a universally accepted determinism being the means for peace implies that there is no universally accepted determinism that exists. This is where you've gone off the rails.

Determinism yes. Pure determinism no.

Pure determinism is a meaningless concept by degree of an absence of any contrast against free will. In a purely deterministic universe you fail to see contradiction as necessitated as it is determined to exist.

Proof is merely interpretation, it is a subjective non-universal state of awareness.

We either have free will or we don't. It has nothing to do with a subjective non-universal state of awareness. Moving in the direction of greater satisfaction IS A UNIVERSAL LAW WITH NO EXCEPTIONS.

No its not. There is no evidence of freewill and determinism necessarily conflicting in all cases. Here is a simple and common analogy: "We choose to play the hand we are dealt".

You have no proof of pure determinism outside of an interpretation as determinism is purely a narrative, a story, that is all.

Point to me where pure determinism is...outside of your mind that is.

If everything is purely deterministic then it is determined that contradiction arises, as evidenced within the contradictions in this whole entire thread, and if that is the case then pure determinism is neither relevant nor necessary.

As to greater satisfaction being a universal law? No, you contradict yourself as satisfaction is rare, it almost never exists within temporality and the evidence is the law itself: if all things move to greater satisfaction then what satisfaction occurs is never enough.

Self-improvement is an ourobos, a masterbatory cycle.

[peacegirl]

Determinism yes. Pure determinism no.

Pure determinism is a meaningless concept by degree of an absence of any contrast against free will. In a purely deterministic universe you fail to see contradiction as necessitated as it is determined to exist.

Proof is merely interpretation, it is a subjective non-universal state of awareness.

We either have free will or we don't. It has nothing to do with a subjective non-universal state of awareness. Moving in the direction of greater satisfaction IS A UNIVERSAL LAW WITH NO EXCEPTIONS.

No its not. There is no evidence of freewill and determinism necessarily conflicting in all cases. Here is a simple and common analogy: "We choose to play the hand we are dealt".

Where does free will enter into this statement: "We choose to play the hand we are dealt." Determinism doesn't take away choice. This is where there is a lot of resistance to determinism, but not the way it's accurately defined.

You have no proof of pure determinism outside of an interpretation as determinism is purely a narrative, a story, that is all.

I don't know what definitions you're going by, but determinism is not an interpretation. I do agree that the definition used needs tweaking, which the author did. Obviously, you don't know why this change in definition is more accurate. As far as free will, compatibilists have changed the definition of free will in an effort to make determinism and free will compatible, but they cannot because they are polar opposites. They do this so they can hold people morally responsible. I understand this but their definition of free will (excluding OCD, addiction, or a gun to your head) does not make the others who do not qualify, FREE.

Point to me where pure determinism is...outside of your mind that is.

If everything is purely deterministic then it is determined that contradiction arises, as evidenced within the contradictions in this whole entire thread, and if that is the case then pure determinism is neither relevant nor necessary.

As to greater satisfaction being a universal law? No, you contradict yourself as satisfaction is rare, it almost never exists within temporality and the evidence is the law itself: if all things move to greater satisfaction then what satisfaction occurs is never enough.

Self-improvement is an ourobos, a masterbatory cycle.

You don't even understand what he meant by "greater satisfaction" when you say "satisfaction is rare." It's not rare. We move in this direction every day all day. I have no idea what you mean when you say satisfaction is never enough. We are constantly moving away from a position of dissatisfaction to a position of greater satisfaction or we would not be alive. And what does self-improvement have to do with his proof? This book is not a self-improvement course. You're making stuff up as you go along.

[Eodnhoj7]

We either have free will or we don't. It has nothing to do with a subjective non-universal state of awareness. Moving in the direction of greater satisfaction IS A UNIVERSAL LAW WITH NO EXCEPTIONS.

No its not. There is no evidence of freewill and determinism necessarily conflicting in all cases. Here is a simple and common analogy: "We choose to play the hand we are dealt".

Where does free will enter into this statement: "We choose to play the hand we are dealt." Determinism doesn't take away choice. This is where there is a lot of resistance to determinism, but not the way it's accurately defined.

You have no proof of pure determinism outside of an interpretation as determinism is purely a narrative, a story, that is all.

I don't know what definitions you're going by, but determinism is not an interpretation. I do agree that the definition used needs tweaking, which the author did. Obviously, you don't know why this change in definition is more accurate. As far as free will, compatibilists have changed the definition of free will in an effort to make determinism and free will compatible, but they cannot because they are polar opposites. They do this so they can hold people morally responsible. I understand this but their definition of free will (excluding OCD, addiction, or a gun to your head) does not make the others who do not qualify, FREE.

Point to me where pure determinism is...outside of your mind that is.

If everything is purely deterministic then it is determined that contradiction arises, as evidenced within the contradictions in this whole entire thread, and if that is the case then pure determinism is neither relevant nor necessary.

As to greater satisfaction being a universal law? No, you contradict yourself as satisfaction is rare, it almost never exists within temporality and the evidence is the law itself: if all things move to greater satisfaction then what satisfaction occurs is never enough.

Self-improvement is an ourobos, a masterbatory cycle.

You don't even understand what he meant by "greater satisfaction" when you say "satisfaction is rare." It's not rare. We move in this direction every day all day. I have no idea what you mean when you say satisfaction is never enough. We are constantly moving away from a position of dissatisfaction to a position of greater satisfaction or we would not be alive. And what does self-improvement have to do with his proof? This book is not a self-improvement course. You're making stuff up as you go along.

1. Determinism is a distinction of A leads to B which corresponds to interpretation as A leads to B. Determinism is interpretation by grade of attentive distinction making.

If the definition of determinism needs tweaking....then it is an intepretation. But if that is determined, and under a pure determinism it is, than determination ceases for it is never truly a fixed state.

2. If we move towards satisfaction everyday then by default in does not occur for one does not move to what they have. A universal law where all moves towards satisfaction necessitates that the human condition is one of unending desire.

3. Giving a book to better mankind is self-improvement. Self-improvement is the last thing mankind needs for self-improvement is just orientation to one of infinite viewpoints.

[Age]

Belinda, I didn't see your thoughts regarding farm animals.

Empathy towards farm animals will mean not breeding food animals either for dairy or flesh eating. Kindness towards food animals inevitably involves more expensive food. Kindness towards animals involves no dairy food whatsoever. Dairy food is obtained by stealing mothers' milk from baby calves who are then cruelly used or destroyed.

peacegirl wrote:
As far as breeding animals for dairy or flesh eating, it would be done with loving care toward these animals.

you adult human beings, in the days when this is being written, do not even loving care for your own children, properly and Correctly. So, why would you then just start 'lovingly care' for other animals?

The cruelty that exists in how animals are raised is heartbreaking but that is because people have become insensitive to their plight due to their own need to survive.

What?

In what universe are the monetary wealthy is some so-called, 'plight', due to their own need to survive, exactly?

And, what even do you, individually, 'need to survive for', exactly?

They have been compelled to believe that animals are just property with no feelings, or they couldn't do what they do. But this will change in due time when people won't have to save money by cutting shortcuts such as cramping animals into small cages and other inhumane practices.

LOL 'save money'.

What are you human beings 'saving money' for, exactly?

What can be very clearly seen, here, once more, is that 'these human beings', back when this was being written, actually believed, absolutely, that 'money' was some sort of 'need' for living, and for surviving.

Just about every thing adults thought about and did, back when this was being written, revolved 'around money' and 'around their love of obtaining more and more money'.

'they' had become so blinded by 'their love of obtaining money' they had, literally, 'lost sight' of what is actually True, and Right, in Life.

[Age]

I think the obvious statement to this whole thread is this:

The author seeks to reveal that all is determined in an effort to bring world peace, or at least ease suffering, unknowing that if what the author presents is true, ie everything is determined, then the chaos exhibited in this thread is determined as well thus nulliifying the vision of a universally accepted determinism being a means for peace.

Is there something I am missing?

You're missing the fact that determinism can be proven true, without exception.

And, so to can 'free will'.

but, obviously not to 'those' who believe otherwise.

I don't consider everything exhibited in this thread as chaos, but, yes, everything is determined including the arguments in this thread. To conclude that this thread somehow nullifies the vision of a universally accepted determinism being the means for peace implies that there is no universally accepted determinism that exists. This is where you've gone off the rails.

[Age]

I think the obvious statement to this whole thread is this:

The author seeks to reveal that all is determined in an effort to bring world peace, or at least ease suffering, unknowing that if what the author presents is true, ie everything is determined, then the chaos exhibited in this thread is determined as well thus nulliifying the vision of a universally accepted determinism being a means for peace.

Is there something I am missing?

You're missing the fact that determinism can be proven true, without exception. I don't consider everything exhibited in this thread as chaos, but, yes, everything is determined including the arguments in this thread. To conclude that this thread somehow nullifies the vision of a universally accepted determinism being the means for peace implies that there is no universally accepted determinism that exists. This is where you've gone off the rails.

Determinism yes. Pure determinism no.

Pure determinism is a meaningless concept by degree of an absence of any contrast against free will. In a purely deterministic universe you fail to see contradiction as necessitated as it is determined to exist.

Proof is merely interpretation, it is a subjective non-universal state of awareness.

Again, nonsensical.

And, again, i can not even think of how to approach 'your wording' in 'a way' to obtain 'clarification'. you appear, well to me anyway, to speak and write in 'a way' that is far too nonsensical to know where to even begin to 'unravel'.

[Age]

You're missing the fact that determinism can be proven true, without exception. I don't consider everything exhibited in this thread as chaos, but, yes, everything is determined including the arguments in this thread. To conclude that this thread somehow nullifies the vision of a universally accepted determinism being the means for peace implies that there is no universally accepted determinism that exists. This is where you've gone off the rails.

Determinism yes. Pure determinism no.

Pure determinism is a meaningless concept by degree of an absence of any contrast against free will. In a purely deterministic universe you fail to see contradiction as necessitated as it is determined to exist.

Proof is merely interpretation, it is a subjective non-universal state of awareness.

We either have free will or we don't.

Of course you older human beings have 'free will'.

But, as always, it always depends on what definition and/or meaning is being used for the words being discussed.

Obviously, if you are using a definition and/or meaning of the term and phrase, 'free will', which could not possibly exist, then, obviously, there is no 'free will'. But, conversely, if one is using a definition and/or meaning of the words, 'free will', which could possibly exist, and does actually exist, then, obviously, 'free will' does actually exist.

How much simpler and easier could I explain 'this process', which could help 'these people' better understand 'this process', and be understood fully?

It has nothing to do with a subjective non-universal state of awareness. Moving in the direction of greater satisfaction IS A UNIVERSAL LAW WITH NO EXCEPTIONS.

Is your constant battle with others, here, because of you not wanting to 'look at' nor 'accept' absolutely any thing other than what you already believe is absolutely true and right, here, actually providing you with 'greater satisfaction'?

If yes, then, once more, 'the direction' that you are 'moving in' for 'your own personal greater satisfaction' is the 'very reason' what "your" father was 'directing you towards'.

[Age]

Garbage men?

(Sanitation workers, for dignity)

What do you mean by "garbage men", "sanitation workers, for dignity"?

Would they be an exception to the rule of always moving in the direction of greater satisfaction?

What?

'They', just like 'you', are doing what it takes to obtain 'more money', because, just like 'you', they Faslely believe, absolutely, that having 'more money' will provide 'more and/or greater satisfaction'.