Misogyny

Anything to do with gender and the status of women and men.

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Atthet
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Re: Misogyny

Post by Atthet »

RickLewis wrote:mickthinks thinks you won't accept any of the names the rest of us could easily put forward. However, for you to justify your rejection of them you would first have to clarify what you mean by "notable". Could you do that now, please?
I will give you the same answer I gave allemotion,
If a woman claims to be a philosopher, then she should debate regularly on a philosophy forum, and win such debates resoundly, against men.
If a woman claims equality to men, then she must compete against men and dominate them in any competition.
If she is beaten, physically, cries, and whimpers like a bitch, then she is a woman, not a man, not equal to men, and must resign her fate to mediocrity and inferiority.
If a woman faces true challenges and mental feats worth mentioning to any history book, then she must prove herself against men of the "same" caliber.
RickLewis wrote:If we take your question as a straightforward request for information, then it seems to me like a completely appropriate question to ask in this section. If there really had been no notable philosophers, mathematicians or scientists in history then that would certainly be a fact worth discussing. In fact, despite the practical disadvantages and social discouragement faced by female scholars in most eras, there have been quite a few of 'em.

The earliest important female mathematician we still remember was Hypatia. She lived in Alexandria in the 4th-5th century AD, was head of the Platonist school there and was murdered by a Christian mob. Doesn't the fact that her name has continued to be known among scholars throughout the 16 centuries since then, that she has been the subject of commentaries and other writings, and that she is still well known today, mean that she was "notable"? I'd have thought it was a good indicator, at least - but if you mean something else by 'notable' do please say so, and tell us exactly how notability should be measured.
Simone de Beauvoir is the only female close to philosopher status, that I've ever heard or accepted, and not because she participated in philosophy, but because she shared a bed with a philosopher. Perhaps then, this may be as close to philosophy as the female specie can ever hope for?
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Misogyny

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Atthet wrote:
RickLewis wrote:mickthinks thinks you won't accept any of the names the rest of us could easily put forward. However, for you to justify your rejection of them you would first have to clarify what you mean by "notable". Could you do that now, please?
I will give you the same answer I gave allemotion,
If a woman claims to be a philosopher, then she should debate regularly on a philosophy forum, and win such debates resoundly, against men.
If a woman claims equality to men, then she must compete against men and dominate them in any competition.
If she is beaten, physically, cries, and whimpers like a bitch, then she is a woman, not a man, not equal to men, and must resign her fate to mediocrity and inferiority.
If a woman faces true challenges and mental feats worth mentioning to any history book, then she must prove herself against men of the "same" caliber.
RickLewis wrote:If we take your question as a straightforward request for information, then it seems to me like a completely appropriate question to ask in this section. If there really had been no notable philosophers, mathematicians or scientists in history then that would certainly be a fact worth discussing. In fact, despite the practical disadvantages and social discouragement faced by female scholars in most eras, there have been quite a few of 'em.

The earliest important female mathematician we still remember was Hypatia. She lived in Alexandria in the 4th-5th century AD, was head of the Platonist school there and was murdered by a Christian mob. Doesn't the fact that her name has continued to be known among scholars throughout the 16 centuries since then, that she has been the subject of commentaries and other writings, and that she is still well known today, mean that she was "notable"? I'd have thought it was a good indicator, at least - but if you mean something else by 'notable' do please say so, and tell us exactly how notability should be measured.
Simone de Beauvoir is the only female close to philosopher status, that I've ever heard or accepted, and not because she participated in philosophy, but because she shared a bed with a philosopher. Perhaps then, this may be as close to philosophy as the female specie can ever hope for?
I guess women were too busy dying in childbirth to be swanning about pondering the meaning of life. How many males do that either? Don't take credit for others' achievements.
Last edited by vegetariantaxidermy on Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
Atthet
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Re: Misogyny

Post by Atthet »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:I guess women were too busy dying in childbirth to be swanning around pondering the meaning of life.
So you admit that women are inferior than men, and have never produced a philosopher in history, due to childbearing and childbirth?
So you agree with me? Very good, this debate is finished.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Misogyny

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Atthet wrote:
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:I guess women were too busy dying in childbirth to be swanning around pondering the meaning of life.
So you admit that women are inferior than men, and have never produced a philosopher in history, due to childbearing and childbirth?
So you agree with me? Very good, this debate is finished.
Inferior 'than' men? :lol: No, I did not say that, they just haven't had the opportunities men have had. Who was the greatest British monarch? Probably Elizabeth the First. According to your 'logic' women should all have the IQ of a jellyfish. Odd that they evolved an equal intelligence to men. Your assertions about the inferiority of women are just not backed up by science. In other words, you talk a load of crap.
Last edited by vegetariantaxidermy on Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Atthet
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Re: Misogyny

Post by Atthet »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:they just haven't had the opportunities men have had.
You're right for once, veggy. Women have always had more opportunity to achieve and become better or superior than men. But, oddly, it's never happened in the realm of philosophy, war, sports, or even statesmanship.
vegetariantaxidermy wrote:Who was the greatest British monarch?
A monarch is a philosopher?
Atthet
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Re: Misogyny

Post by Atthet »

I have been accused here, by allemotion, for "hating". This is a devastating assault!
What do I hate about women? What is there to be jealous of?
I can think of one thing. A beautiful woman doesn't need to work in life, doesn't need to compete, doesn't need to act, or do, or hold up to any human standard. All she needs to do is "be". All she needs to do to find worth in life, is to spread her legs. Am I supposed to be jealous of this, beauty?

Do I hate beautiful women? Allemotion says yes, but, why would I hate a beautiful woman? Why would any man hate that which has no value at all? Beauty has no actual value, no worth, no utility, no activity. It is completely passive, superficial, and non-existent.
Beauty is an ideal of man.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Misogyny

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Atthet wrote:I have been accused here, by allemotion, for "hating". This is a devastating assault!
What do I hate about women? What is there to be jealous of?
I can think of one thing. A beautiful woman doesn't need to work in life, doesn't need to compete, doesn't need to act, or do, or hold up to any human standard. All she needs to do is "be". All she needs to do to find worth in life, is to spread her legs. Am I supposed to be jealous of this, beauty?

Do I hate beautiful women? Allemotion says yes, but, why would I hate a beautiful woman? Why would any man hate that which has no value at all? Beauty has no actual value, no worth, no utility, no activity. It is completely passive, superficial, and non-existent.
Beauty is an ideal of man.
And it's in the eye of the beholder. You have a very warped view of reality. What attracted you to your wife? Her nice, bushy moustache?
chaz wyman
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Re: Misogyny

Post by chaz wyman »

Atthet wrote:I have been accused here, by allemotion, for "hating". This is a devastating assault!
What do I hate about women? What is there to be jealous of?
I can think of one thing. A beautiful woman doesn't need to work in life, doesn't need to compete, doesn't need to act, or do, or hold up to any human standard. All she needs to do is "be". All she needs to do to find worth in life, is to spread her legs. Am I supposed to be jealous of this, beauty?

Do I hate beautiful women? Allemotion says yes, but, why would I hate a beautiful woman? Why would any man hate that which has no value at all? Beauty has no actual value, no worth, no utility, no activity. It is completely passive, superficial, and non-existent.
Beauty is an ideal of man.
You are contradicting yourself, First you say you hate then you ask why. Then you deny the existence of the very reason for hating. Confused?
Why would this engender hate?
There are a range of things that people are born with that gives them dis/advantages. Why single out beauty?
What is it in you that made you think of that? Ever been snubbed by a good looker?
reasonvemotion
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Re: Misogyny

Post by reasonvemotion »

Then which women deserve love, and which women do not?

If a man falls in love with a woman, he would think she was deserving of his love . If this woman rejects his love, would she then become undeserving? What of unrequited love. Is it a love that some people prefer rather than no love at all.

Which woman is worth sacrificing for, and which women are not?

What is it that you are proposing to sacrifice? Does one have to sacrifice to love?

Is a woman's highest value in life, based on anything more than beauty?

Yes. Our sense of self-worth is a woman's highest value as is her personal journey. Let me make clear that genuine self-esteem has two dimensions of self-evaluation, "an evaluation that one is competent to deal with life's basic challenges (self-efficacy) and an evaluation that one is worthy of happiness (self-worth)" as "natural" and proper to one's existence. I spent too much time in a dysfunctional relationship, and ultimately the marriage failed. Power and control issues are complicated for all of us, but are particularly so for women who find themselves in untenable situations, and may lack the confidence or resources or even the knowledge that they can change things. Our sense of self worth has everything to do with what we accept in our lives. Beauty is a gift and it "affects human beings through the senses, and while the awareness of beauty does not involve abstraction, nevertheless, beauty is an object of the intellect" and should be appreciated as such.


If two women were trapped in a burning building, and one could be saved, one is beautiful and the other ugly, then save which one?

Trapped in a burning building? For any compassionate person beauty or ugly would not be an issue in that circumstance. Save which one? Ask the fireman how those decisions are made.
Last edited by reasonvemotion on Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
reasonvemotion
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Re: Misogyny

Post by reasonvemotion »

I have been accused here, by allemotion, for "hating". This is a devastating assault!
There must have been a valid reason.

Show the post dealing with this.
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RickLewis
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Re: Misogyny

Post by RickLewis »

Atthet wrote:
RickLewis wrote: The earliest important female mathematician we still remember was Hypatia. She lived in Alexandria in the 4th-5th century AD, was head of the Platonist school there and was murdered by a Christian mob. Doesn't the fact that her name has continued to be known among scholars throughout the 16 centuries since then, that she has been the subject of commentaries and other writings, and that she is still well known today, mean that she was "notable"? I'd have thought it was a good indicator, at least - but if you mean something else by 'notable' do please say so, and tell us exactly how notability should be measured.
Simone de Beauvoir is the only female close to philosopher status, that I've ever heard or accepted, and not because she participated in philosophy, but because she shared a bed with a philosopher. Perhaps then, this may be as close to philosophy as the female specie can ever hope for?
I notice that you didn't respond to my question about Hypatia and the meaning of notability. Do you accept that she was a notable mathematician? If not, what is your criterion of notability?

(And pur-lease, DON'T say that to be notable she should have been able to dominate you in debate in an online philosophy forum. She died in the 5th century!)
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Satyr
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Re: Misogyny

Post by Satyr »

8)
Last edited by Satyr on Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Satyr
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Re: Misogyny

Post by Satyr »

I recall a story about a talking gorilla.

Coco the Gorilla
This exceptional gorilla only serves to show the limitations of the average member of that group.

Einstein the Bird
There's no telling what upper limits of potential training can attain.
Imitation, like knowledge, is often mistaken for intelligence.

I only hope that Hypatia was not as masculine in attitude as she was in thought.
Still being a contributor to a discipline is notable, but not as much as being an innovator of a new discipline.
I may participate in a team that contributes to a particular art-form but this is not the same as saying that I invent an art-form.
One adds to the already existing, the other goes outside of it and forges a new path.

The ironic thing is that those who make the best contributions are the ones least able to provide revolutionary paths.
To contribute to the established requires that you submit to its premises, only wanting to enhance it.
To revolutionize thinking or art or anything, requires one to then reject the established, to deconstruct it and to recombine it in a new way.

Females make wonderful bakers. They follow recipes brilliantly.
But, when it comes to stepping outside the recipe and inventing a new cake, they leave it up to males.
It's interesting that in cooking, where females having been condemned to the kitchen for so long, there are no real culinary female innovators.
Even in comedy where some creativity and thinking outside the box is required, females fail to be as funny as men.

The late, great, Christopher Hitchens:
An Immodest Rebuttal
Women in Comedy

But, as I'm sure most of you know, Hitchens hated women, was never loved by his mother, and had a small penis.
so, again, his personal situation dismisses his hateful opinions and he got what he deserved.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Misogyny

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Satyr wrote:I recall a story about a talking gorilla.

Coco the Gorilla
This exceptional gorilla only serves to show the limitations of the average member of that group.

Einstein the Bird
There's no telling what upper limits of potential training can attain.
Imitation, like knowledge, is often mistaken for intelligence.

I only hope that Hypatia was not as masculine in attitude as she was in thought.
Still being a contributor to a discipline is notable, but not as much as being an innovator of a new discipline.
I may participate in a team that contributes to a particular art-form but this is not the same as saying that I invent an art-form.
One adds to the already existing, the other goes outside of it and forges a new path.

The ironic thing is that those who make the best contributions are the ones least able to provide revolutionary paths.
To contribute to the established requires that you submit to its premises, only wanting to enhance it.
To revolutionize thinking or art or anything, requires one to then reject the established, to deconstruct it and to recombine it in a new way.

Females make wonderful bakers. They follow recipes brilliantly.
But, when it comes to stepping outside the recipe and inventing a new cake, they leave it up to males.
It's interesting that in cooking, where females having been condemned to the kitchen for so long, there are no real culinary female innovators.
Even in comedy where some creativity and thinking outside the box is required, females fail to be as funny as men.

The late, great, Christopher Hitchens:
An Immodest Rebuttal
Women in Comedy

But, as I'm sure most of you know, Hitchens hated women, was never loved by his mother, and had a small penis.
so, again, his personal situation dismisses his hateful opinions and he got what he deserved.
You have seen Hitchens' penis? I've seen no evidence for any of those assertions. He was too rational a person to hate any particular group of people.
Last edited by vegetariantaxidermy on Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mickthinks
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Re: Misogyny

Post by mickthinks »

I believe you just invented those 'facts', Satty. They aren't real, they are just things that women-haters like to imagine are true ...
Satyr wrote:They follow recipes brilliantly.
Do you have evidence that women follow recipes better than men do?

... there are no real culinary female innovators.
Can you cite some evidence for the claim that all culinary innovation is by men rather than women?

... females fail to be as funny as men.
Even Hitchens didn't make that claim! But maybe he would have done if he had your evidence. What evidence do you have?
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