Does gender matter?

[popeye1945]

Male and Female are two aspects of one thing, a species. Only in a rat shit crazy culture like the one we presently live in could one get confused over that. Where in the natural world do you see all these genders? It's called mental illness; if the slipper fits, Cinderella, wear it. Perhaps humanity is just too fucking stupid to survive.

[MikeNovack]

a) YOU are the one who said it's 'grossly unfair' with regard to sports! I've already asked you to clarify that-- which you didn't bother to. I'm pretty sure you meant 'unfair' to men though,

b) Your writing is hard to decipher at the best of times. Do you have massive sausage fingers by any chance? You should read what you write before submitting.

c)Why are you banging on about rare genital birth defects anyway? What does that have to do with anything? This isn't a medical thread.

a ---that is you, blinded by your assumption that since I am a male I MUST be on the silly side of that debate, being unable to see I have answered. But to help, I will be very explicit. Unfair to girls/women of "c" (those genetic defects you think irrelevant) because THEY would be unable to compete as women were the standard "genetic testing"

b --- sorry about "fat finger, but yes, my finger pads are large, and often hit adjacent keys. I do look, but can miss some.

c --- Well the two types I described not so rare that I have not personally known one of each (why I picked those) . Do note that SIZE depends on multiple genes, not single genes/hormones produced. So either of these GIRLS might have advantage in women's sports, not because transitioned from men but because large women. In other words, they are more or less the size they would have been as men had the defect not screwed up their fetal development.

LOOK, this discussion is supposed to be about GENDER. It is only if you do not see gender as a social classification and only if you think can only be two genders that your problem of "men in women's sports/locker rooms" exists. IF you allow a gender term for "men => women" (a term OTHER THAN "female") then there is no problem. Now English, as of yet has no term, but Samoan does, so I'll use that, OK, "fa'afafine". See, problem goes away. Men and fa'afafine not allowed in women's sports/locker rooms. That rule works, and does so without having to deny fa'fafine are not men.

[accelafine]

a) YOU are the one who said it's 'grossly unfair' with regard to sports! I've already asked you to clarify that-- which you didn't bother to. I'm pretty sure you meant 'unfair' to men though,

b) Your writing is hard to decipher at the best of times. Do you have massive sausage fingers by any chance? You should read what you write before submitting.

c)Why are you banging on about rare genital birth defects anyway? What does that have to do with anything? This isn't a medical thread.

a ---that is you, blinded by your assumption that since I am a male I MUST be on the silly side of that debate, being unable to see I have answered. But to help, I will be very explicit. Unfair to girls/women of "c" (those genetic defects you think irrelevant) because THEY would be unable to compete as women were the standard "genetic testing"

b --- sorry about "fat finger, but yes, my finger pads are large, and often hit adjacent keys. I do look, but can miss some.

c --- Well the two types I described not so rare that I have not personally known one of each (why I picked those) . Do note that SIZE depends on multiple genes, not single genes/hormones produced. So either of these GIRLS might have advantage in women's sports, not because transitioned from men but because large women. In other words, they are more or less the size they would have been as men had the defect not screwed up their fetal development.

LOOK, this discussion is supposed to be about GENDER. It is only if you do not see gender as a social classification and only if you think can only be two genders that your problem of "men in women's sports/locker rooms" exists. IF you allow a gender term for "men => women" (a term OTHER THAN "female") then there is no problem. Now English, as of yet has no term, but Samoan does, so I'll use that, OK, "fa'afafine". See, problem goes away. Men and fa'afafine not allowed in women's sports/locker rooms. That rule works, and does so without having to deny fa'fafine are not men.

You stupid old p****. A MAN with a genital defect is NOT a woman. Women's sports are for WOMEN. That means NO Y chromosomes allowed. EVER! The only reason that chromosome tests have even been considered in the first place is because of all the cheating arsehole men who are dependent on useful idiots like you to muddy the waters with your googled bullshit about EXTREMELY RARE birth defects where one baby, once in the history of the universe, was born with XXXXXXYYYYYYYYYY dhromosomes and gave birth to chimpanzee octuplets!

You also deliberately ignore every point I make and then just keep repeating yourself over and over agian. Do you think I'm going to change my mind because you keep repeating yourself?

Now piss off and stop annoying me with your horribly written crap. It's not worth the stress trying to read and decipher it induces!

[MikeNovack]

Continuing at cross purposes.

You want the definition of man "one (or more) Y chromosomes."

I was suggesting that YOU might not want that to apply to certain genetic abnormalities. But apparently you consider those too negligible (in terms of statistics AND/OR simply don't think what I am describing exists.

Nor does a low frequency in the total population mean a low frequency in a subset of that population. Women in sports where size matters, matters greatly.

I am NOT talking about MEN becoming women. I am talking about individuals who were thought to be female at birth, raised as females, thought of themselves as females, who did not know anything was wrong with them till puberty (OR possibly earlier by an abdominal MRI). These usually get diagnosed because menses should have begun and hasn't (they don't have ovaries or uterus, etc.)

I am saying THESE should not be judged by Y chromosome alone. I am saying THAT would be unfair (to them). I am saying it should be a defense against "disqualified for having a Y chromosome" to have one of those particular genetic defects. Don't worry, none of the men trying to become women will have one of those defects. Doesn't work the other way around.

[accelafine]

blah blah blah.... you need to listen to me. I'm a man, dammit! Male genital deformities supersede women's rights hands down! If a man has been 'raised as a woman' i.e. he has been bombarded with barbie dolls and princess dresses (because everyone knows this is the magic formula for 'womanhood'), then he is a WOMAN!

Get lost, man. You are irrelevant. You might as well be telling women that they shouldn't be allowed to vote because the bible told you so, and then expect them to give a shit what you think.

[MikeNovack]

Well at this point I certainly don't give a damn about what YOU think. Did I say think? You are so fixated on what you imagine me to be saying (because I am a man) you can't see what I am saying. Which side I am on.

For some (less than intelligent reason) you persist to think I am talking about male babies with genital abnormalities. You are so convinced of that you won't bother to look up for yourself what I am describing < THAT is how you should respond if you doubt my description -- LOOK IT UP FOR YOURSELF >

PS -- Totally out of order to FORGE quotes.

[accelafine]

Well at this point I certainly don't give a damn about what YOU think. Did I say think? You are so fixated on what you imagine me to be saying (because I am a man) you can't see what I am saying. Which side I am on.

For some (less than intelligent reason) you persist to think I am talking about male babies with genital abnormalities. You are so convinced of that you won't bother to look up for yourself what I am describing < THAT is how you should respond if you doubt my description -- LOOK IT UP FOR YOURSELF >

PS -- Totally out of order to FORGE quotes.

Oh diddums. Have a cry. It's not the job of women to be experts in rare choromosomal anomalies. As I said, the only reason sex tests have even been considered is because of cheating male arseholes and perverts who want to harm women. Take it up with your sex. I don't give a shit what you have to say.