My thoughts on Israel

[accelafine]

"Emigrating there legally was an 'invasion'?"

No. That's just rhetoric. It boils down to this. I already explained the impasse here when the Hamas airforce employed those model 7b light operations capable flying go-carts over the fence and into the rave.

It depends on what you consider a legitimate form of permission to take a territory. In Israel's case, a legitimate decision was made by a committee of countries to let the jews have a spot and call it Israel. On the other hand, a legitimate decision was made by a country not part of that committee to not allow the jews to have a spot and call it israel.

So, who's decision is more legitimate? Does the number of people who agree on a decision make it right... or is a decision right independently of how many people make it?

There was at one point a larger erf population calling themselves goddamn communists than erf populations calling themselves something else. When China and Russia and the little satellite goddamn communist states were around... he'll that's half the erf right there, hain't it?

I've concluded after the exchange between the historians Maia and Clarke that indeed it is all taken by force by somebody at some time. So he who has the power to defend a thing... to him, that thing belongs, and so shall he be the proprietor. Thrasymachus and Stirner were right all along.

Self-confessed psycopathic weirdo. Who cares what you have to say about anything?

[accelafine]

"Emigrating there legally was an 'invasion'?"

No. That's just rhetoric. It boils down to this. I already explained the impasse here when the Hamas airforce employed those model 7b light operations capable flying go-carts over the fence and into the rave.

It depends on what you consider a legitimate form of permission to take a territory. In Israel's case, a legitimate decision was made by a committee of countries to let the jews have a spot and call it Israel. On the other hand, a legitimate decision was made by a country not part of that committee to not allow the jews to have a spot and call it israel.

So, who's decision is more legitimate? Does the number of people who agree on a decision make it right... or is a decision right independently of how many people make it?

There was at one point a larger erf population calling themselves goddamn communists than erf populations calling themselves something else. When China and Russia and the little satellite goddamn communist states were around... he'll that's half the erf right there, hain't it?

I've concluded after the exchange between the historians Maia and Clarke that indeed it is all taken by force by somebody at some time. So he who has the power to defend a thing... to him, that thing belongs, and so shall he be the proprietor. Thrasymachus and Stirner were right all along.

No that's just incomprehensible. Not even rhetoric. And no it was an invasion of another people's land. They were the 'legitimate' inhabitants, not that they needed legitimacy, just autonomy. independence. To be left alone. Not the successive occupiers and the UN who facilitated invasion and conquest, against the will of the people of the land, by force.

So where do you live, old man?

[Age]

Indeed. The liitle creep is showing his true colours.

Who and/what is the so-called 'little creep', exactly?

And, what are those so-called 'true colors', exactly?

Fuck off nazi c*nt. You can't hide behind your alleged 'autism' now. Autism has nothing to do with being a c*nt.

Again,

1. 'This one' can not even elaborate on its claims, let alone be able to actually back up and support them.

2. you are Right. 'Cunts' and 'autism' are two very different things.

3. Imagine hating one group of people, so much, and loving another group of people, so much, that you become blind and can only see "one-side" of things, and of the actual Truth?

[accelafine]

Who and/what is the so-called 'little creep', exactly?

And, what are those so-called 'true colors', exactly?

Fuck off nazi c*nt. You can't hide behind your alleged 'autism' now. Autism has nothing to do with being a c*nt.

Again,

1. 'This one' can not even elaborate on its claims, let alone be able to actually back up and support them.

2. you are Right. 'Cunts' and 'autism' are two very different things.

3. Imagine hating one group of people, so much, and loving another group of people, so much, that you become blind and can only see "one-side" of things, and of the actual Truth?

Fuck off nazi ****.

[Age]

Prove me wrong then (we live in hope ).

By what means would you like me to prove you wrong? Should I condemn Age to the fiery gates of Hell? Should I rebuke him in the name of Jesus?

Age is no favorite of mine to begin with. What can anyone do? There are messed-up people in the world. Maybe it's not their fault (according to BigMike). Or maybe we're all "messed-up" (according to Age). I honestly don't know. I think modern science, especially AI is full of nut jobs, and they've got me bonkers too. I don't know where Age gets his relentless power from, but he drives me insane half the time. Apparently, Age the nazi is more intellectually powerful than Gary the basket case.

Moronic response. I'm saying he will spin you some bs and blow you like the weathervane that you are. It's so pathetic and predictable.

And that "accelafine" can, and will, only 'see' and 'hear' only what it already believes is absolutely true is also so pathetic, and predictable, as well.

But, 'each to their own', as the saying goes.

[accelafine]

By what means would you like me to prove you wrong? Should I condemn Age to the fiery gates of Hell? Should I rebuke him in the name of Jesus?

Age is no favorite of mine to begin with. What can anyone do? There are messed-up people in the world. Maybe it's not their fault (according to BigMike). Or maybe we're all "messed-up" (according to Age). I honestly don't know. I think modern science, especially AI is full of nut jobs, and they've got me bonkers too. I don't know where Age gets his relentless power from, but he drives me insane half the time. Apparently, Age the nazi is more intellectually powerful than Gary the basket case.

Moronic response. I'm saying he will spin you some bs and blow you like the weathervane that you are. It's so pathetic and predictable.

And that "accelafine" can, and will, only 'see' and 'hear' only what it already believes is absolutely true is also so pathetic, and predictable, as well.

But, 'each to their own', as the saying goes.

Prove that I'm wrong, little nazi nobody. I'm waiting.

[Age]

Those who have read my memorable trips thread will know that I spent a fortnight in Israel in 2009, when I was 17, but given the current situation, I thought I'd elaborate on that a bit, and share my thoughts.

It was a school trip, comprising members of the Upper and Lower Sixth, about 20 of us altogether, plus members of staff. I was in the Upper Sixth, my final year. It was January, the off season I suppose, but we needn't have worried about it being too cold, as it turned out to be one of the hottest places I've ever been. It was certainly cold in the UK, though, but this didn't really hit us until we flew back into Manchester, two weeks later, from Ben Gurion. We had been warned, beforehand, that while getting into Israel was easy, getting out was another matter, and they regularly strip searched tourists who were leaving. While they didn't actually subject us to this, there was definitely a lot of waiting around. I'm still not sure why this was the case, though. Why were they more worried about people leaving, than entering?

We spent the first two days at a hotel in Tel Aviv, which is a busy, modern city, just like any other. The main thing I remember about it is the boardwalk, a long promenade on the coast of the Mediterranean, with a seemingly endless row of outdoor restaurants and bars, and a whole load of delicious, tempting smells of food. It was impossible to choose which one to go in, so we just went in one at random. A guy at the entrance, fairly young, I think, said something to me in Hebrew, so I said, I'm sorry, I don't speak Hebrew, and without skipping a beat he switched immediately to flawless English, and took us to a table, and was really attentive to us the whole time we were there. We must have seemed like complete fishes out of water, having split off from the main group, four blind English girls, still in our school uniforms, at that point. Hearing about all the recent missile attacks on Tel Aviv, I couldn't help thinking about that time, and how friendly and helpful he was to us.

From Tel Aviv we took the bus to Eilat, in the extreme south of the country, and this is where the heat really hit us. The bus journey took us through the Negev Desert, and my ears popped, as we went though it, as we were apparently below sea level. We stopped for a break on the way at a small group of shops with a McDonald's, where I got a large coke. It was quite an eerie experience standing outside, in the desert, a sense of complete, desolate isolation and emptiness, despite the nearby shops. In Eilat we stayed at a hotel called Migdal Towers, which is, of course, a tautology, as migdal means tower, in Hebrew. Eilat was our base for most of the time we were there. On one of the days we took a boat trip on the Red Sea, as far as the Egyptian border, then back to Eilat. It was an old fashioned boat with a wooden deck, on which they had laid out a whole load of really nice food, olives, sun dried tomatoes, all good healthy stuff. On another day we went to a place, a little outside Eilat, called Dolphin Reef, a dolphin sanctuary on the shore of the Red Sea, and we swam with the dolphins. On another day we were supposed to go to the famous rock city of Petra, just over the border in Jordan, but we were advised not too, as tensions were high, at the time. And a lot of the rest of the time, we just lazed around on the beach and in the sea, sampling lots of different restaurants, and so on. I particularly liked all the different seafood you could get.

It goes without saying that Israel is a completely secular, Western country, but there are, nevertheless, a lot of devout Jews there, as I found out at the hotel when I realised that the lifts were going up and down, doors opening and closing, but no one was getting in or out. I asked our guide about this, and she said that since it was a Saturday, the sabbath, devout Jews were not allowed to press the button to call for a lift, as this was considered to be work, so the lifts were laid on for them.

We spent the final two nights in Jerusalem, at a hotel on the Mount of Olives, the cellars of which were apparently built by the Knights Templar, as I was recently reminded when I started reading a novel about them. I found the Old City very claustrophobic, all enclosed and full of people. We also spent a bit of time at the Hebrew University, since the trip, ostensibly at least, was supposed to be educational.

Anyway, this has turned out to be a pretty long post, but I do like writing travelogues, as some here may have noticed. Israel is a really interesting place, full of friendly people, and I sincerely hope that it all turns out well for them, as I'm sure it will.

Glad to hear you had a nice trip.?? But....are you aware of....umm....what's Israel's been up to, lately.? I know the U.S. President was speaking about setting up a nice resort not too far from there. You should check it out if you get chance.... ! ....after you've finished dining first, of course.

I haven't heard about anything that Israel has done that isn't justified as self defence, and trying to get their hostages back (or "sausages" as our esteemed prime minister called them on one occasion).

Once more 'we' have another prime example of how and when a person will only 'see' and 'hear' what they want to see and hear, or, will 'not see' and 'not head' what they do not want to. Which is based up and on their pre-existing beliefs and presumptions.

Some of these people could not be more blind and more closed, and thus could not be more stupid.

And, they wondered why there was so much hatred and wars on 'the world'.

Bear in mind that the Palestinians started this war by invading Israel, capturing civilians at a music festival, killing babies, raping women and generally acting in the most barbaric way imaginable.

Could 'this one' with a more narrowed view and perspective of things?

'It all started on 'one particular day' a few years back'.

The absurdity and amount of stupidity never ceases to amaze.

You don't get to start a war and then cry foul when you start losing.

Imagine starting a thread on the pretence of talking about 'taking a vacation', in an attempt to 'try to' 'justify', the unjustifiable.

Bombing, killing, maiming, and/or starving children and babies is never 'justifiable'.

There is not a reason in the whole Universe that could 'justify' the above Wrong doings to children and babies . So, it would be appreciated if people like you and "accelafine" stopped 'trying to'.

And, this is without even beginning to 'look at' the reasons why what the people of "israel" are doing, here, is double and eve triple Wrong.

[Age]

"You don't get to start a war and then cry foul when you start losing"

That's what the arabs have been telling the jews since like 1940.

... and if it weren't for the U.S. protecting its new satellite state in the Middle East, the arabs would have erased the jews by now.

The Arabs conquered Palestine in the 7th century, and it had previously been owned by the Jews. Even during Roman times lots of Jews still lived there. The only real difference between the Arab conquest, and the Israelis taking over the land, is the length of time that has elapsed since it happened, and also the fact that the Arabs had never lived there before.

It may indeed be true that Israel couldn't survive without the USA, but this doesn't change the fact the facts on the ground.

Knowing why 'the posters', here, spoke and wrote as though there were real 'groups' of actually 'different human beings' helps in explaining why there was so much hatred, and wars, among them, back in the 'olden days' when this was being written.

[accelafine]

"You don't get to start a war and then cry foul when you start losing"

That's what the arabs have been telling the jews since like 1940.

... and if it weren't for the U.S. protecting its new satellite state in the Middle East, the arabs would have erased the jews by now.

The Arabs conquered Palestine in the 7th century, and it had previously been owned by the Jews. Even during Roman times lots of Jews still lived there. The only real difference between the Arab conquest, and the Israelis taking over the land, is the length of time that has elapsed since it happened, and also the fact that the Arabs had never lived there before.

It may indeed be true that Israel couldn't survive without the USA, but this doesn't change the fact the facts on the ground.

Knowing why 'the posters', here, spoke and wrote as though there were real 'groups' of actually 'different human beings' helps in explaining why there was so much hatred, and wars, among them, back in the 'olden days' when this was being written.

No facts, no evidence. What 'groups' are you referring to, dear? The only one who keeps referring to 'groups' is you. Could you explain what you mean by 'groups'?

[Age]

Not to mention the fact that Zionists PURCHASD the land legally from Arab landownders. The landowners thought they would be able to just take it back again. They thought wrong. Jews emigrated there legally.

'This one' 'tries to' make it sound like, 'if it is 'legal', then it is Right, and/or good'.

Which is obviously, on and of itself, totally ridiculous and beyond absurdity

Interesting that wokies are so keen for muslims to emigrate en masse to Europe, yet say that Jews had no right to emigrate to Israel. [/quote]

Just as interesting as "wokies" 'trying to' 'justify' the killing, maiming, and starving of children and babies.

I don't like the 'ancestral homeland' argument though. No other country has to justify its existence so why should Israel have to? They bought land. They emigrated. They won it after multiple attacks.

Yet you take the exact opposite view and position when it is 'another group of people'.

you could not come across and be more contradictory, here, "accelafine".

They built a gorgeous country from nothing in a short space of time. Why does that ENRAGE people so much? They practically foam at the mouth with rage over it.

Imagine having 'the love' and 'the admiration' for 'one group of people's' that you end up 'worshipping them', no matter how much Wrong and/or evil they do?

[Age]

Not to mention the fact that Zionists PURCHASD the land legally from Arab landownders. The landowners thought they would be able to just take it back again. They thought wrong. Jews emigrated there legally. Interesting that wokies are so keen for muslims to emigrate en masse to Europe, yet say that Jews had no right to emigrate to Israel.
I don't like the 'ancestral homeland' argument though. No other country has to justify its existence so why should Israel have to? They bought land. They emigrated. They won it after multiple attacks. They built a gorgeous country from nothing in a short space of time. Why does that ENRAGE people so much? They practically foam at the mouth with rage over it.

It would be like saying that if the Jews have no right to Israel, then the current inhabitants of the USA have no right to it, neither. Or indeed anywhere in the world that has been colonised. One could even say that the English have no right to England, since the Anglo-Saxons took over the land in the 5th and 6th centuries.

Also, around half of the Jewish population of Israel are Arab Jews, descended from Jews expelled by the Arab countries in the 1940s.

Israel is a very good example of what a nation can achieve if its people work together with a common sense of purpose.

So, now 'this one' is 'trying to' 'justify' the taking of land from other people.

The 'current inhabitants' of that land labelled the "united states of america" do have, absolutely, no right at all to 'that land', in the 'current' made up form of 'legal rights'.

[Age]

Not to mention the fact that Zionists PURCHASD the land legally from Arab landownders. The landowners thought they would be able to just take it back again. They thought wrong. Jews emigrated there legally. Interesting that wokies are so keen for muslims to emigrate en masse to Europe, yet say that Jews had no right to emigrate to Israel.
I don't like the 'ancestral homeland' argument though. No other country has to justify its existence so why should Israel have to? They bought land. They emigrated. They won it after multiple attacks. They built a gorgeous country from nothing in a short space of time. Why does that ENRAGE people so much? They practically foam at the mouth with rage over it.

It would be like saying that if the Jews have no right to Israel, then the current inhabitants of the USA have no right to it, either. Or indeed anywhere in the world that has been colonised. One could even say that the English have no right to England, since the Anglo-Saxons took over the land in the 5th and 6th centuries.

Also, around half of the Jewish population of Israel are Arab Jews, descended from Jews expelled by the Arab countries in the 1940s.

Israel is a very good example of what a nation can achieve if its people work together with a common sense of purpose.

Yes. It's ridiculous. Every country has been 'colonised'. I don't think the American colonisers bothered to pay the earlier inhabitants for the land.
And the Irish are always banging on about being 'Celtic', but the Celts certainly didn't originate there so they must have 'colonised' whoever was there already. There have been people in Ireland for about ten thousand years-- long before the Celts.

Again, what is with this naming and labelling of different groups of human beings, as though they actually exist?

It was a very common trait among the older human beings, in the days when this was being written. Although they did not know why they would express things, as though they were true, when they were, obviously, not, they just kept on doing it. And thus why the wars, and the hatred, continued on, 'unknowingly:

There's just 'something' about Israel that makes people really angry. Gosh. I wonder what that could be

Are you hinting that you already know what 'it' is, exactly, what makes people angry, here?

If yes, then do you have the courage to announce what you believe 'it' is, exactly, which is making people angry, here.

Again, if no, then why not? What is 'it' that is making you so afraid and scared, here, exactly?

[Age]

It would be like saying that if the Jews have no right to Israel, then the current inhabitants of the USA have no right to it, either. Or indeed anywhere in the world that has been colonised. One could even say that the English have no right to England, since the Anglo-Saxons took over the land in the 5th and 6th centuries.

Also, around half of the Jewish population of Israel are Arab Jews, descended from Jews expelled by the Arab countries in the 1940s.

Israel is a very good example of what a nation can achieve if its people work together with a common sense of purpose.

Yes. It's ridiculous. Every country has been 'colonised'. I don't think the American colonisers bothered to pay the earlier inhabitants for the land.
And the Irish are always banging on about being 'Celtic', but the Celts certainly didn't originate there so they must have 'colonised' whoever was there already. There have been people in Ireland for about ten thousand years-- long before the Celts.
There's just 'something' about Israel that makes people really angry. Gosh. I wonder what that could be

I believe they often paid the Native Americans some worthless trinkets, and then made treaties, which they always broke. Since there is such a tiny number of Native Americans left, doesn't this count as a genocide? Unlike, say, in Israel, which has a 20% population of Arab Muslims. As you say, there must be some other reason why they hate Israel so much.

The Celts came to the British Isles around 700 BC, give or take a couple of centuries, bringing iron weapons with them, and conquering the previous inhabitants, who had built the stone circles and other megalithic monuments.

'This one' speaks as though it has the 'actual irrefutable Facts'.

[Age]

The wrongs of history are so enormous they cannot be undone.

The Wrongs of history, no matter how small, enormous, significant, or insignificant they can not be undone. Just like the Rights of history, also no matter how small, large, significant, or insignificant they were they also can not be undone. The word 'history', itself, verifies this Fact.

Also, and by the way for those with any interest, even when what you people, here, call 'time travel' began, what was done, historically, remains 'undone'.

What was wrongly called 'time travel' did not 'take off' until after human beings Corrected their Wrong thinking and thus their Wrong ways, as well. Nature, Itself, has a way of not allowing things to get to 'off balance', or to 'out of equilibrium'.

They cannot even be reset.

Just like the Wrongs of 'today', or the Wrongs being made in the days when this is being written, could not be so-called 'reset', neither.

But, just like the Wrongs of 'the past' had a purpose, so to do the Wrongs being made 'today' have 'their purpose', as well.

We all stand on an Everest of corpses. For whom we must be grateful.

Until, 'one day', things all change, for 'the better'.

[Age]

The wrongs of history are so enormous they cannot be undone. They cannot even be reset. We all stand on an Everest of corpses. For whom we must be grateful.

Very true. And the more one studies history, the more obvious it becomes.

Remember, 'memories' are not fallible. So, what is, or was, perceived as 'real history' could be as False as some of the beliefs people have and hold 'today'.

Also, how can one 'study' some thing that 'now' does 'not even exist'?

And, for an example of this, just 'look at' your own 'perceptions' of what happened in 'the past' above, here. To me, there are very obvious False claims, but because you believe that what you 'studied', 'of history', is the true and right version, you will believe otherwise, here.

Have any of you people, here, noticed that 'what you study' is always the correct and right version, and that if anyone else has a different or opposing version, then it is them who has not done the 'right studying'?