Philosophy Now Forum

bahman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 2:25 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 2:20 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 2:14 pm
What do you mean that time is a measure of events?


What you offer is not an argument.

Yer just another SAP that will take this to Nth degree when you know you're beat. If you HONESTLY don't comprehend how time is a measure of events, then you really should not have created a thread about infinite regress of causality.

What do you mean by time is a measure of events? Please don't evade.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 2:38 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 2:25 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 2:20 pm

Yer just another SAP that will take this to Nth degree when you know you're beat. If you HONESTLY don't comprehend how time is a measure of events, then you really should not have created a thread about infinite regress of causality.

What do you mean by time is a measure of events? Please don't evade.

I didn't intend to 'evade' I honestly thought you might comprehend that TIME is a man made measure of, events.

The measurement of time is a human construct designed to quantify the ongoing and cyclical events in the natural world. Whether based on the Sun, the Moon, atomic vibrations, or other phenomena, timekeeping systems help us organize and synchronize our activities in a meaningful way.

ALL measurements of time require EVENTS. So a year is about 365 days, a day is appx 24 hrs, an hr is 60 minutes, a minute is 60 seconds..etc etc..



...OK I am in CBF mode, I used C-GPT to provide the finer details of EVENTS:-


Year: Approximately 365 days. Defined by the Earth's orbit around the Sun, completing one revolution.

Day: Approximately 24 hours. Defined by one rotation of the Earth on its axis.

Hour: 60 minutes. A conventional unit of time, historically based on the division of the day and night into 24 hours.

Minute: 60 seconds. Another conventional unit, further dividing hours.

Second: A unit of time, defined in the International System of Units (SI) as the duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the cesium-133 atom.

Millisecond (ms): 0.001 seconds. Often used in contexts where more precision is needed than seconds.

Microsecond (μs): 0.000001 seconds. One millionth of a second.

Nanosecond (ns): 0.000000001 seconds. One billionth of a second.

Picosecond (ps): 0.000000000001 seconds. One trillionth of a second.

Femtosecond (fs): 0.000000000000001 seconds. One quadrillionth of a second.

Attosecond (as): 0.000000000000000001 seconds. One quintillionth of a second.

Each level of time subdivision involves further divisions of the preceding unit, and as you go down to the femtosecond and attosecond levels, these intervals become incredibly brief and are often associated with processes occurring at the atomic and subatomic levels. The measurement of time at these scales is crucial in fields like physics, chemistry, and ultrafast optics for understanding and manipulating extremely fast EVENTS.

bahman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 1:17 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 9:58 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 9:44 pm So time moves on but it does not change?

If you want to put it that way, I suppose you could.

"Moves on" is a metaphor that makes one think of position in a space, which isn't right either; but if you understand it merely as a metaphor, that would be okay.

Do you by move on mean that time takes different values?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 8:30 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 1:17 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 9:58 pm
If you want to put it that way, I suppose you could.

"Moves on" is a metaphor that makes one think of position in a space, which isn't right either; but if you understand it merely as a metaphor, that would be okay.

Do you by move on mean that time takes different values?

I'm guessing you mean, "Do you, by 'move on', mean that time takes different values?" Is that right?

What I mean is that time itself never changes. It's just time. Humans may mark different points in time, but time continues on, "sixty seconds to the minute, sixty minutes to the hour, twenty-four hours to the day..." regardless of else changes, and regardless of what humans think.

bahman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 8:33 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 8:30 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 1:17 pm
Do you by move on mean that time takes different values?

I'm guessing you mean, "Do you, by 'move on', mean that time takes different values?" Is that right?

What I mean is that time itself never changes. It's just time. Humans may mark different points in time, but time continues on, "sixty seconds to the minute, sixty minutes to the hour, twenty-four hours to the day..." regardless of else changes, and regardless of what humans think.

But change in material is not possible if time does not change.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 8:47 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 8:33 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 8:30 pm
I'm guessing you mean, "Do you, by 'move on', mean that time takes different values?" Is that right?

What I mean is that time itself never changes. It's just time. Humans may mark different points in time, but time continues on, "sixty seconds to the minute, sixty minutes to the hour, twenty-four hours to the day..." regardless of else changes, and regardless of what humans think.

But change in material is not possible if time does not change.

Change in material is not possible without time. But that's not to say that time changes...it's the material entities themselves that change, not the nature of time itself.

bahman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 8:51 pm By change, I mean that time gets different values.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 9:18 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 8:51 pm By change, I mean that time gets different values.

But these "values" are merely things humans assign to the phenomenon of time passing. You can see this, because there's such a thing as "standard time," and such a thing as "Greenwich mean time," and something called "metric time," and something called "daylight saving time," and "nap time" and "tea time," and "a lifetime" and "time to die."

So yeah, it "gets different values," but so what?

bahman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 9:29 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 9:18 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 8:51 pm By change, I mean that time gets different values.

But these "values" are merely things humans assign to the phenomenon of time passing. You can see this, because there's such a thing as "standard time," and such a thing as "Greenwich mean time," and something called "metric time," and something called "daylight saving time," and "nap time" and "tea time," and "a lifetime" and "time to die."

So yeah, it "gets different values," but so what?

I have an argument for time being subject to change.

bahman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 3:18 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 2:38 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 2:25 pm
What do you mean by time is a measure of events? Please don't evade.

I didn't intend to 'evade' I honestly thought you might comprehend that TIME is a man made measure of, events.

The measurement of time is a human construct designed to quantify the ongoing and cyclical events in the natural world. Whether based on the Sun, the Moon, atomic vibrations, or other phenomena, timekeeping systems help us organize and synchronize our activities in a meaningful way.

ALL measurements of time require EVENTS. So a year is about 365 days, a day is appx 24 hrs, an hr is 60 minutes, a minute is 60 seconds..etc etc..



...OK I am in CBF mode, I used C-GPT to provide the finer details of EVENTS:-


Year: Approximately 365 days. Defined by the Earth's orbit around the Sun, completing one revolution.

Day: Approximately 24 hours. Defined by one rotation of the Earth on its axis.

Hour: 60 minutes. A conventional unit of time, historically based on the division of the day and night into 24 hours.

Minute: 60 seconds. Another conventional unit, further dividing hours.

Second: A unit of time, defined in the International System of Units (SI) as the duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the cesium-133 atom.

Millisecond (ms): 0.001 seconds. Often used in contexts where more precision is needed than seconds.

Microsecond (μs): 0.000001 seconds. One millionth of a second.

Nanosecond (ns): 0.000000001 seconds. One billionth of a second.

Picosecond (ps): 0.000000000001 seconds. One trillionth of a second.

Femtosecond (fs): 0.000000000000001 seconds. One quadrillionth of a second.

Attosecond (as): 0.000000000000000001 seconds. One quintillionth of a second.

Each level of time subdivision involves further divisions of the preceding unit, and as you go down to the femtosecond and attosecond levels, these intervals become incredibly brief and are often associated with processes occurring at the atomic and subatomic levels. The measurement of time at these scales is crucial in fields like physics, chemistry, and ultrafast optics for understanding and manipulating extremely fast EVENTS.

That is true that we use events to measure time but change cannot occur without time.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 9:40 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 9:29 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 9:18 pm
But these "values" are merely things humans assign to the phenomenon of time passing. You can see this, because there's such a thing as "standard time," and such a thing as "Greenwich mean time," and something called "metric time," and something called "daylight saving time," and "nap time" and "tea time," and "a lifetime" and "time to die."

So yeah, it "gets different values," but so what?

I have an argument for time being subject to change.

That time itself stops being time, or decays from being time, or changes from being time into being something else?

I can't imagine what that would be.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 5:00 am

bahman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 3:18 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 2:38 pm

I didn't intend to 'evade' I honestly thought you might comprehend that TIME is a man made measure of, events.

The measurement of time is a human construct designed to quantify the ongoing and cyclical events in the natural world. Whether based on the Sun, the Moon, atomic vibrations, or other phenomena, timekeeping systems help us organize and synchronize our activities in a meaningful way.

ALL measurements of time require EVENTS. So a year is about 365 days, a day is appx 24 hrs, an hr is 60 minutes, a minute is 60 seconds..etc etc..



...OK I am in CBF mode, I used C-GPT to provide the finer details of EVENTS:-


Year: Approximately 365 days. Defined by the Earth's orbit around the Sun, completing one revolution.

Day: Approximately 24 hours. Defined by one rotation of the Earth on its axis.

Hour: 60 minutes. A conventional unit of time, historically based on the division of the day and night into 24 hours.

Minute: 60 seconds. Another conventional unit, further dividing hours.

Second: A unit of time, defined in the International System of Units (SI) as the duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the cesium-133 atom.

Millisecond (ms): 0.001 seconds. Often used in contexts where more precision is needed than seconds.

Microsecond (μs): 0.000001 seconds. One millionth of a second.

Nanosecond (ns): 0.000000001 seconds. One billionth of a second.

Picosecond (ps): 0.000000000001 seconds. One trillionth of a second.

Femtosecond (fs): 0.000000000000001 seconds. One quadrillionth of a second.

Attosecond (as): 0.000000000000000001 seconds. One quintillionth of a second.

Each level of time subdivision involves further divisions of the preceding unit, and as you go down to the femtosecond and attosecond levels, these intervals become incredibly brief and are often associated with processes occurring at the atomic and subatomic levels. The measurement of time at these scales is crucial in fields like physics, chemistry, and ultrafast optics for understanding and manipulating extremely fast EVENTS.

That is true that we use events to measure time but change cannot occur without time.

Change can occur (events) WITHOUT any concept that man has invented. Man invented the concept of time, to measure "change" not to PERMIT it!!!

I'm done!! Faaaarrkkk!!! There's just no getting through to some people.

bahman wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 5:40 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 9:40 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 9:29 pm
I have an argument for time being subject to change.

That time itself stops being time, or decays from being time, or changes from being time into being something else?

I can't imagine what that would be.

Time does not change to something else, its value however changes.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 5:56 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 5:40 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 9:40 pm
That time itself stops being time, or decays from being time, or changes from being time into being something else?

I can't imagine what that would be.

Time does not change to something else, its value however changes.

Since those values are merely a fallible-human attempt to describe the objective reality of time, the fact that they change is not at all surprising. And it doesn't tell us that time itself changes.

bahman wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 6:29 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 5:56 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 5:40 pm
Time does not change to something else, its value however changes.

Since those values are merely a fallible-human attempt to describe the objective reality of time, the fact that they change is not at all surprising. And it doesn't tell us that time itself changes.

Time is proven to be a substance