Philosophy Now Forum

commonsense wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:46 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:27 am But you know what else is used in the commission of crimes? Logic. Mathematics. Science. Philosophy. Computers.

Wanna ban those?

Let’s just start with guns for now.

What an idiot - try walking into a school armed with Logic. Mathematics. Science. Philosophy. Computers. and kill 100s of kids.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:45 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:44 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:41 pm Duh. ..and control of a situation - where the fuck are you getting the idea our police have the right to execute citizens?

"Control a situation"? What do you mean by that?

Are you saying that police officers can use the THREAT of lethal force without actually employing lethal force?

Obviously.

Do you understand that's actually illegal? If the situation did not warrant deadly force and you draw; or point your firearm at a person you can be convicted of an assault with a deadly weapon.

Guns are for self defence, not intimmidation!

attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:45 pm Again, how is allowing EVERYONE to have guns more sensible than just allowing police to have guns?

Why the double standard? What makes police officers special? Why are they exempt from the no-guns rule?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:33 pm
I want a gun for the exact same reason your police carry guns.

Self-defence.

What's the fun in being born into a world where we are just innocent helpless victims of our own self-inflicted predatory nature, that the only way to solve the problem is to carry guns or knifes, or drive cars into people, and build nuclear weapons in order to protect ourselves in a self-defence kind of way is not a fun deal really is it?

Why don't we just set up special kung fu training schools for everyone who is born into this predatory world, so that everyone can learn how to become their own special trained Shaolin monk?

attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:49 pm What an idiot - try walking into a school armed with Logic. Mathematics. Science. Philosophy. Computers. and kill 100s of kids.

Yeah sure.

I built a bomb in chemistry class.

Broke a bunch of windows. Bruised my ego.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:39 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:22 am Now Skeppy put things into TRUE stat perspective...provide a graph of the USA deaths by guns since 1700 to present in relation to percentage of guns per population for those years.

That would be a really stupid graph and a really vicious tautology.

I don't really care whether 100% of deaths are "gun deaths"; or "knife deaths"; or "baseball bat deaths" if the murder rate halves as gun, knife and baseball bat ownership increases..

I see your point—guns are tools. But are you claiming that there are people intent on murder who choose a gun as their m.o. over some other weapon on a whim? Say, for mass murder?

Harbal wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 11:45 am

Sculptor wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 11:34 am
I've never needed and gun, nor have to been in any situation where the use, thread or suggestion of one would have been a good idea.
I suppose that is because I live in a country where people sort out problems without guns.
DO you suppose skeppy is a bit scardy?

I could understand some Americans thinking of owning a gun as a necessary evil, but many of them seem to have a passionate, almost sexual, attachment to them. It comes across as more than a little perverse.

Surely not!?!?!?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CG-6q62 ... GzdaMZeihI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWQ7Qad ... VQbaXUY4Xc

THese are the worlds Skep Dick thinks hes living in.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:52 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:45 pm Again, how is allowing EVERYONE to have guns more sensible than just allowing police to have guns?

Why the double standard? What makes police officers special? Why are they exempt from the no-guns rule?

Because they are trained, tested and employed to uphold the law of civilised society.

Why do you think EVERYONE owning guns is sensible?

So what's the point of banning anything?

Why not just ban people from the world, surely that's the only way to stop all these destructive man-made lethal weapons from becoming a nuisance to society, if we just ban people from living, then all the fun weapons will become totally harmless, null and void, inactive, end of problem.

Right?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:53 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:49 pm What an idiot - try walking into a school armed with Logic. Mathematics. Science. Philosophy. Computers. and kill 100s of kids.

Yeah sure.

I built a bomb in chemistry class.

Broke a bunch of windows. Bruised my ego.

Only in chemistry class - pathetic. We built one and blew the windows out on a bus.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 12:25 pm Why must one be held accountable for the crime of another?

A does wrong.

Z does not.

Punish A and leave Z be.

It's not punishment to register a gun and hold a licence for it.

commonsense wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:53 pm I see your point—guns are tools. But are you claiming that there are people intent on murder who choose a gun as their m.o. over some other weapon on a whim? Say, for mass murder?

Nothing like that.

I am saying the category "gun death" signifies what tool was used.
This confuses people who think it signifies a causal relationship; and an implication that if the gun wasn't there the murder wouldn't have happened.

That may be true for some edge/corner cases but it's not true in general. Since in 80%+ of murders the attacker and victim know each other what actually happens is that the gun murders become knife murders.

The murder rate doesn't decrease, but the zealots are patting themselves on the back for having reduced "gun muders".

Sculptor wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 2:00 pm It's not punishment to register a gun and hold a licence for it.

What function/purpose does registration/licensing serve?

Especially since all successfully-run gun registries cost tax payers millions over budget and solved no crimes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_ ... s_Registry

attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:57 pm Because they are trained, tested and employed to uphold the law of civilised society.

Why do you think EVERYONE owning guns is sensible?

Because in a civilised society I am innocent until proven guilty.

So the onus isn't on me to justify why I want a gun.

The onus is on society to justify why it should be taken away from me.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 2:04 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:57 pm Because they are trained, tested and employed to uphold the law of civilised society.

Why do you think EVERYONE owning guns is sensible?

Because in a civilised society I am innocent until proven guilty.

AGAIN. Why do you think EVERYONE owning guns is sensible?

attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 2:05 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 2:04 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:57 pm Because they are trained, tested and employed to uphold the law of civilised society.

Why do you think EVERYONE owning guns is sensible?

Because in a civilised society I am innocent until proven guilty.

AGAIN. Why do you think EVERYONE owning guns is sensible?

Why do you think EVERYONE owning guns is not sensible?

Are you a misanthrope or something?