Philosophy Now Forum

promethean75 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 8:26 pm "ain't seen evidence he's done diddly 'cept take up space"

horror vacui, Henry. There is no such thing as 'space', therefore Biggs can't 'take it up'.

promethean75 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 7:58 pm Biggs is like Socrates to the second power. He will absolutely strip you of all your personal philosophical certainty in ethics... or, at least show you how absurd your position is. Not so much what you believe, mind you - the staggering complexity and mystery that the universe is, etc. - but rather your insistence that you are 'right' in what you believe and that all rational people should/would believe the same.

that sonofabitch'll work on ya, that's for sure. he's the only guy i know that has willingly, purposely and with design, maintained argument with your old pal Satyr over at Knowthyself for longer than a year.

That's the relentless dedication of the trained objectivist killer, henry. I've known Biggs (on the fora) since 2002, and i bear witness to debates that'll ruin a man, turn em into a philosophical animal that gets a taste of intellectual blood and is changed forever.

In fact, I watched Biggs take on a whole team of guys led by a mexican kant objectivist defense lawyer (the guy was Mexican, i mean. Not Kant. Kant was Canadian) that went on for upwards of two years. It was perhaps this definitive battle that made of Biggs what he is today.

Fact is, Biggs never came home. He went AWOL and stayed in the intellectual jungle hunting for objectivists. Think Willem Dafoe

Yeah, what he said.

iambiguous wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 8:26 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 7:57 pm

iambiguous wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 6:32 pm So, does IC acknowledge that his own view on guns is just a political prejudice rooted existentially in dasein

Nobody knows what you mean by "dasein." It's your own undefined term. You refuse to say what it means.

So your question amounts to, "Does IC acknowlege his view...is rooted in ?"

One cannot even know how to answers such a question. It's not even coherent.

Shameless! Absolutely shameless!!

Again, this sort of post would be expected over at ILP. But here?!

It's as though he stumbled onto Philosophy Now on the internet and thought it was this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_(brand)

And yet....no response!

You don't have any definition for dasein.

Nice deflection, by the way...I must congratulate you on the extravagance of the attempt.

Now, define dasein. Yours.

ME:

iambiguous wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 7:26 pm
Come on henry, what's my script next to the Scripts provided to us by the flocks of sheep who ascribe one or another moral and political conviction to one or another God?

God and guns. There's either a connection here or there's not.

Same with immortality and salvation. There's IC's Script from the Christian God:

"And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

How does that not clearly state that even if you are packin' on Judgment Day given IC's "personal opinion" here, you still ain't going up if you don't believeth in Jesus Christ? Can your God guarantee everlasting life?

If there's a loophole here, spit it out.

Otherwise, like me, you are damned.

HIM:

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 8:11 pm

you are damned

mebbe so...if so: I'm: doin' a jail break

Note to IC:

Will turning Judgment Day and eternal damnation into a joke likely work with God? Packin' or not, does he or does he not have to accept Jesus Christ as his personal savior?

Me?

Well, I'd like to think that if there is a Christian God, He'd at least respect the fact that I often took His existence quite seriously. I used the brain He gave me to explore religion out in the deep end of the pool. I agonized over it some years ago, but honestly and introspectively of late, I keep coming back to this:

1] a demonstrable proof of the existence of your God or religious/spiritual path
2] addressing the fact that down through the ages hundreds of Gods and religious/spiritual paths to immortality and salvation were/are championed...but only one of which [if any] can be the true path. So why yours?
3] addressing the profoundly problematic role that dasein plays in any particular individual's belief in Gods and religious/spiritual faiths
4] the questions that revolve around theodicy and your own particular God or religious/spiritual path

Especially number 4. There I am at Judgment Day having a serious and sincere discussion about it with Him. I might get in.

iambiguous wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 9:09 pm Note to IC:

Will turning Judgment Day and eternal damnation into a joke likely work with God?

I wouldn't try it.

Lots of people do.

Me?
Well, I'd like to think that if there is a Christian God, He'd at least respect the fact that I often took His existence quite seriously.

"Took His existence seriously"? What does that mean?

If a person holds the existence of God losely, as one of many possible theses, does that amount to "taking God seriously?" Or does thinking about Him, and deciding one is just as well to do nothing but wait to see what happens after one dies, does that amount to "taking God seriously"? Or how about living one's whole life as a skeptic, and then just hoping to get a pass on whatever terms please me...is that "taking God seriously"? What if God had spoken, and I simply refused to read His words or think about them, or only read them with an urgent desire to dismiss what I was reading; would I be "taking God seriously"? Or if I prefered to dabble in other "religions," and perhaps in some form of universalism, because I couldn't be bothered to search a book that would put serious responsibilties on me to know and respond to truth; would I then be "taking God seriously"?

And what if He sent His Son, and I never even bothered to pay attention, even though I had heard about that: would that be "taking God seriously"?

You're going to have to pin that down. What's allegedly "serious" to one person may ultimately prove not really very "serious" at all.

I used the brain He gave me to explore religion out in the deep end of the pool.

Is that so? Exactly what did you do?

[1] a demonstrable proof of the existence of your God or religious/spiritual path

Jesus Christ.

2] addressing the fact that down through the ages hundreds of Gods and religious/spiritual paths to immortality and salvation were/are championed...but only one of which [if any] can be the true path. So why yours?

Because Jesus Christ said so. And he backed up what He said with His life, death and resurrection.

3] addressing the profoundly problematic role that dasein...

No idea what you mean. You won't even define the term. I can't possibly know what you're thinking.

4] the questions that revolve around theodicy and your own particular God or religious/spiritual path.

Which "questions"? You'll have to say...I can't tell you what your "questions" are.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 8:22 pm

I suppose it might take banning more weapons than only the AR-15 to do something about mass shootings.

All you got to do is replace...

GUN-FREE ZONE

...WITH...

ARMED & TRAINED STAFF ON DUTY

...and actually have armed & trained staff on duty.

Do that and watch schools and malls and moviehouses fall right off the would-be shooter's list of favored targets.

Great idea!

Who can we arm and train?

commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 7:43 pm OK, so you probably don’t want to solve the Toyota problem unless you can solve the motor vehicle problem.

I suppose it might take banning more weapons than only the AR-15 to do something about mass shootings.

As they say... defining the problem is half the solution.

Just so long as we are clear, I shall comply with the letter of any law and in the same breath I will be intentionally circumventing the spirit of the law.
Whatever definitions you come up with - I shall invent a device which doesn't fit the definition yet performs the function I intend it to perform.

Solve the problem in some way which doesn't remove my most effective tool for self-defence.

Simmer down, IC. 'dasein' in the biggsean idiom cannot be defined, because to define it would be to commit to a particular set of epistemological prejudices and become an objectivist in doing so.

think about it. if Biggs explained what the word meant, and expected you to agree and accept his definition... why, he'd contradict his own thesis; that man is awash in his own inexplicable ignorance of what he is, is to do, and what for. I mean about the bigg questions, not shit like tying your shoes or the best way to grill flounder.

promethean75 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 9:52 pm Simmer down, IC. 'dasein' in the biggsean idiom cannot be defined,

Gee...so Heidegger was wrong? Good to know.

And these people too...all nuts? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dasein. Good thing you told me: I might have thought that Jaspers, or Jung, or Adorno, or somebody else knew more about it than you do...

Glad you warned me off.

commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 9:33 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 8:22 pm

I suppose it might take banning more weapons than only the AR-15 to do something about mass shootings.

All you got to do is replace...

GUN-FREE ZONE

...WITH...

ARMED & TRAINED STAFF ON DUTY

...and actually have armed & trained staff on duty.

Do that and watch schools and malls and moviehouses fall right off the would-be shooter's list of favored targets.

Great idea!

Who can we arm and train?

Really?

henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 2:29 pm

commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 9:33 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 8:22 pm

All you got to do is replace...

GUN-FREE ZONE

...WITH...

ARMED & TRAINED STAFF ON DUTY

...and actually have armed & trained staff on duty.

Do that and watch schools and malls and moviehouses fall right off the would-be shooter's list of favored targets.

Great idea!

Who can we arm and train?

Really?

Commonsense:

Here's a scenario.

You're a parent. Your child goes to public school somewhere. Say, eighth grade...say, a girl, the delight of your heart.

One day, the news reports that there's a gunman in your child's school. You know that she's in class, somewhere. She's locked down, and the gunman is strolling the school, unimpeded by the cops who are "waiting him out" or waiting for clearance to storm the building.

Her history teacher is a Leftist pacifist who would never carry a gun, for any reason. Her English teacher is volunteer security officer for the school, a registered, police-trained and practiced marksman, who packs a .357 magnum in his belt every day, just in case something happens.

In which classroom would you like your child to be: history class, or English class?

henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 2:29 pm

commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 9:33 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 8:22 pm

All you got to do is replace...

GUN-FREE ZONE

...WITH...

ARMED & TRAINED STAFF ON DUTY

...and actually have armed & trained staff on duty.

Do that and watch schools and malls and moviehouses fall right off the would-be shooter's list of favored targets.

Great idea!

Who can we arm and train?

Really?

Really. I guess I’m really asking about who can we afford to train and arm, and how we can pay their salaries. I suppose one way would be from taxes from gun sales.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 2:36 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 2:29 pm

commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Jul 13, 2022 9:33 pm

Great idea!

Who can we arm and train?

Really?

Commonsense:

Here's a scenario.

You're a parent. Your child goes to public school somewhere. Say, eighth grade...say, a girl, the delight of your heart.

One day, the news reports that there's a gunman in your child's school. You know that she's in class, somewhere. She's locked down, and the gunman is strolling the school, unimpeded by the cops who are "waiting him out" or waiting for clearance to storm the building.

Her history teacher is a Leftist pacifist who would never carry a gun, for any reason. Her English teacher is volunteer security officer for the school, a registered, police-trained and practiced marksman, who packs a .357 magnum in his belt every day, just in case something happens.

In which classroom would you like your child to be: history class, or English class?

Your scenario is unrealistic and absurd.

Where do you find teachers who want to be, or have time to be, security officers or hall monitors or cafeteria chaperones? Where do you find security personnel who want to be teachers? Where do you find teachers who will stay on the job knowing any of her students might gain access to a gun stored in her classroom or carried on her person?

Do that and watch schools and malls and moviehouses fall right off the would-be shooter's list of favored targets.

Then they will move on to playgrounds, bowling alleys and Chinese restaurants.

They will still be gunning down someone.

commonsense wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 4:49 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 2:36 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 2:29 pm

Really?

Commonsense:

Here's a scenario.

You're a parent. Your child goes to public school somewhere. Say, eighth grade...say, a girl, the delight of your heart.

One day, the news reports that there's a gunman in your child's school. You know that she's in class, somewhere. She's locked down, and the gunman is strolling the school, unimpeded by the cops who are "waiting him out" or waiting for clearance to storm the building.

Her history teacher is a Leftist pacifist who would never carry a gun, for any reason. Her English teacher is volunteer security officer for the school, a registered, police-trained and practiced marksman, who packs a .357 magnum in his belt every day, just in case something happens.

In which classroom would you like your child to be: history class, or English class?

Your scenario is unrealistic and absurd.

Not a bit. It's not only realistic, but it's SO realistic that every school now has frequent "lockdown" drills and onging training in "shelter in place" to escape potential gunmen. It's now a regular part of every teacher's life, and all public school classrooms.

Where do you find teachers who want to be, or have time to be, security officers or hall monitors or cafeteria chaperones?

Everywhere. It's part of their daily duties, and has been for decades. They monitor halls, cafeterias and classrooms, dances, gymnasia, grounds, extra curricular places...and are 100% responsible for the security and well-being of the children put in their charge, at all times. Every teacher knows that. And if they fail in that duty, you can be sure there will be consequences: they know that, too.

The only difference between now and my scenario is whether or not, when it happens, there is any teacher in that school who has a gun. And there are teachers -- I know this beyond any possibility of doubt -- who would gladly carry a firearm to protect the children in their care. Some would rush to volunteer, given our present realities.

So let's not pretend this isn't exactly what's happening in our world right now. It is.

So what's your answer? Where do you want your daughter to be: in history class, or English class?