Philosophy Now Forum

Easy access to safe, legal abortion is the best thing that ever happened to WOMEN.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 11:57 pm A foetus is technically a parasite which the body expels after x amount of time.
Why aren't these 'pro-lifers' campaigning against the removal of cancerous tumours? Aren't they deserving of 'life' too?

no, a fetus is the natural, normal result of sexual congress

it's not a parasite

also, in context of this thread: at any stage, it's human

you may reject it as person, but you can't reject that it's, at least, human cells that, given time, definitely become nuthin' but a *person

*unless you take sculptor's position, in which case personhood is bestowed, never intrinsic (but, really, do you want to argue that persons are only persons when a society or gov sez they are?)

so: we have human cells that, if left unmolested, become a human being

the question: when do these human cells cross the threshold to bein' a being?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:12 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:10 am Easy access to safe, legal abortion is the best thing that ever happened to WOMEN.

You keep saying it, as if it won't mean babies are being murdered by women because they didn't make good choices in the first place, and then made a truly brutal, horrible choice to cover up their other bad choice.

But that's how it is.

Why do you hate women so much? Is it because you have a tiny penis? You are sexually unappealing? Honestly, some women don't care about that.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:15 am Why do you hate women so much?

I was going to ask you the same question: "Why do you hate both male and female babies so much"?

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 11:54 pm 'Sculptor' makes his mischief-making thread, makes a few pathetic comments that are, if anything, counterproductive non-arguments, then scuttles off to enjoy the fallout. *What a kunt.

*on that, we agree...

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:15 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 11:57 pm A foetus is technically a parasite which the body expels after x amount of time.
Why aren't these 'pro-lifers' campaigning against the removal of cancerous tumours? Aren't they deserving of 'life' too?

no, a fetus is the natural, normal result of sexual congress

it's not a parasite

also, in context of this thread: at any stage, it's human

you may reject it as person, but you can't reject that it's, at least, human cells that, given time, definitely become nuthin' but a *person

*unless you take sculptor's position, in which case personhood is bestowed, never intrinsic (but, really, do you want to argue that persons are only persons when a society or gov sez they are?)

so: we have human cells that, if left unmolested, become a human being

the question: when do these human cells cross the threshold to bein' a being?

+1

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:03 am That did not make sense because you are stupid

That's it? Moronic insults are all you've got? That's pathetic.

wtf wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 1:57 am

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:03 am That did not make sense because you are stupid

That's it? Moronic insults are all you've got? *That's pathetic.

*that's my good friend, sculptor, in a nutshell

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:12 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:10 am Easy access to safe, legal abortion is the best thing that ever happened to WOMEN.

You keep saying it, as if it won't mean babies are being murdered by women because they didn't make good choices in the first place, and then made a truly brutal, horrible choice to cover up their other bad choice.

You seem to be misunderstanding the discussion IC. The discussion is about terminating a foetus, NOT about MURDERING a baby.

A distinction needs to be made as per a Christian regarding the term LOVE. A baby is loved. A foetus destined for termination is NOT loved.

So, are you suggesting that humans are killing eternal souls by having an abortion. Or, is the soul immortal, and hence reborn into a more supportive, better equipped family unit - eventually?

A GOOD Christian, should abort where he accidentally shot his load into non-birth controlled crack whore!!! - or do you think that foetus should be born, and likely turn into a life of crime and drugs and generally be a menace to society!?

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 2:08 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:12 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:10 am Easy access to safe, legal abortion is the best thing that ever happened to WOMEN.

You keep saying it, as if it won't mean babies are being murdered by women because they didn't make good choices in the first place, and then made a truly brutal, horrible choice to cover up their other bad choice.

You seem to be misunderstanding the discussion IC. The discussion is about terminating a foetus, NOT about MURDERING a baby.

Nope. You can't make somebody stop being a human being by "defining" her as merely a "foetus" or "a cluster of cells," or whatever. You know, every time you do that, you're being dishonest.

You know that you're killing a baby.

A baby is loved. A foetus destined for termination is NOT loved.

So the worth of a person is determined by whether another person "loves" them? You'd better hope you're always "loved" then.

So, are you suggesting that humans are killing eternal souls by having an abortion.

I'm simply pointing out what the status of the act is: it's murder. You can soft pedal that all you want...but you know it's true.

AND There you go again chopping out the parts that you have no answers for to suit your own argument.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 2:18 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 2:08 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:12 am
You keep saying it, as if it won't mean babies are being murdered by women because they didn't make good choices in the first place, and then made a truly brutal, horrible choice to cover up their other bad choice.

You seem to be misunderstanding the discussion IC. The discussion is about terminating a foetus, NOT about MURDERING a baby.

Nope. You can't make somebody stop being a human being by "defining" her as merely a "foetus" or "a cluster of cells," or whatever. You know, every time you do that, you're being dishonest. You know that you're killing a baby.

Rubbish! A baby is a fully developed entity that has been born.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 2:18 am

atto wrote:A distinction needs to be made as per a Christian regarding the term LOVE. A baby is loved. A foetus destined for termination is NOT loved.

So the worth of a person is determined by whether another person "loves" them? You'd better hope you're always "loved" then.

Absolutely, especially when God insists on LOVE. And especially since GOD is the biggest abortionist on the planet, clearly God doesn't care too much about a foetus.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 2:18 am

atto wrote:So, are you suggesting that humans are killing eternal souls by having an abortion.

I'm simply pointing out what the status of the act is: it's murder. You can soft pedal that all you want...but you know it's true.

NO. It is not MURDER. Is God MURDERING when women miscarry? IT IS THE SOUL THAT IS IMPORTANT - NOT THE MATERIAL SQUIDGY THING!

atto wrote:PLEASE ADDRESS MY SALIENT POINT THAT YOU OMMITTED:-
So, are you suggesting that humans are killing eternal souls by having an abortion. Or, is the soul immortal, and hence reborn into a more supportive, better equipped family unit - eventually?

A GOOD Christian, should abort where he accidentally shot his load into non-birth controlled crack whore!!! - or do you think that foetus should be born, and likely turn into a life of crime and drugs and generally be a menace to society!?

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 3:04 am AND There you go again chopping out the parts that you have no answers for to suit your own argument.

I chop things for two reasons only:
1. If you don't, then every message is 2X the length of the previous one...which quicklly becomes impractical, and

2. Some things are worth a response, and some are just not. They may be asides, they may be trivialities, they may not speak to the main point, they may be jokes, they may be just so blatantly wrong they don't deserve a response, they may be ad hominem and irrelevant, or they may just be embarassing to see repeated. There can be many such incentives not to respond to something.

Live with it. You do it all the time, yourself.

A baby is a fully developed entity that has been born.

What is it one second before that?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 2:18 am

atto wrote:A distinction needs to be made as per a Christian regarding the term LOVE. A baby is loved. A foetus destined for termination is NOT loved.

So the worth of a person is determined by whether another person "loves" them? You'd better hope you're always "loved" then.

Absolutely

Good luck with that. I guess you don't have intrinsic worth, according to your theory.

NO. It is not MURDER.

Yes, it is. And you know it is.

atto wrote:PLEASE ADDRESS MY SALIENT POINT THAT YOU OMMITTED

It was silly and not at all salient. So no. You don't know anything about your putative case. What you do know is that a baby is a baby, and that's what you're killing...in order to avoid the consequences of having already made a bad "choice."

Yep, it's murder.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 2:08 am
You seem to be misunderstanding the discussion IC. The discussion is about terminating a foetus, NOT about MURDERING a baby.

Can you put the legal case of Scott Peterson in context for me?

In 2004, he was convicted of the first-degree murder of his pregnant wife, Laci Peterson, and the second-degree murder of their unborn son, Conner ...

In other words according to California law, you can be convicted of murdering a fetus. The newspapers at the time were full of the stories about "unborn baby Conner," which I thought was ironic considering that the SF Bay area is strongly pro-choice. It's a clump of undifferentiated cells one day and unborn baby Conner the next, depending on who's being outraged at the moment.

Perhaps you can explain this point to me. If a fetus is not a baby, why can you be convicted of murdering it? I've always been struck by this case. There are others. Someone shoots a pregnant woman and gets charged with killing the fetus. Happens all the time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Peterson

There's a law that applies, the Unborn Victims of Violence Act.

The Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004 (Public Law 108-212) is a United States law which recognizes an embryo or fetus in utero as a legal victim, if they are injured or killed during the commission of any of over 60 listed federal crimes of violence. The law defines "child in utero" as "a member of the species Homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unborn_Vi ... olence_Act

Now how do you square that circle?

atto wrote:

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 2:18 amNO. It is not MURDER.

Yes, it is. And you know it is.

Actually, as someone, indeed from what appears to be the case the ONLY one that is in direct contact with God and a sage - I was told by GOD that NO I did NOT commit a MURDER!

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 2:18 am

atto wrote:Are you suggesting that humans are killing eternal souls by having an abortion. Or, is the soul immortal, and hence reborn into a more supportive, better equipped family unit - eventually?

A GOOD Christian, should abort where he accidentally shot his load into non-birth controlled crack whore!!! - or do you think that foetus should be born, and likely turn into a life of crime and drugs and generally be a menace to society!?

It was silly and not at all salient.

It IS a salient point. The world would be awash with delinquents (more so than now) if every foetus was permitted to be born via people with neither the means or what is important to raise a healthy well adjusted child.

Immanuel Can wrote:Yep, it's murder.

God told me it isn't!

And by the way, I guess by all the morning after pills girls took that would make me a MASS MURDERER according to stupid short-sighted evangelists...such as the likes of you and your ilk.

wtf wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:15 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 2:08 am
You seem to be misunderstanding the discussion IC. The discussion is about terminating a foetus, NOT about MURDERING a baby.

Can you put the legal case of Scott Peterson in context for me?

Sure, so we are talking about the country where one places a hand on the bible and swears to tell the truth, and on the other hand is sentenced to death, contrary to the contents of the bible!!!!

The land of hypocrisy right there!

In the case you mentioned, consideration could be made to the fact that a married couple were willing to love and nurture the child once born, a far cry from a crack whore, possible someone that was raped that gets pregnant and is likely to raise a delinquent because the state will not allow her to terminate an unwanted pregnancy.