Philosophy Now Forum

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:47 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:33 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:12 pm
Did you forget our discussion about choosing a button when both are the same? If your brain structured to push the right button instead of the left one then options are an illusion.

You're not understanding the example I gave. You can have a bias where you favor left or right, but you're not going to push the one you're biased towards 100% of the time. So there's a bias, but the bias isn't deterministic. There's still a real choice.

In other words, a bias towards one thing versus another doesn't at all imply that only the biased thing is possible. It just means that there's a tendency to go with the biased option rather than other options.

Are you talking about a bias that you are not aware of it?

Not necessarily, but there would be biases of that sort, too.

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:04 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:47 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:33 pm
You're not understanding the example I gave. You can have a bias where you favor left or right, but you're not going to push the one you're biased towards 100% of the time. So there's a bias, but the bias isn't deterministic. There's still a real choice.

In other words, a bias towards one thing versus another doesn't at all imply that only the biased thing is possible. It just means that there's a tendency to go with the biased option rather than other options.

Are you talking about a bias that you are not aware of it?

Not necessarily, but there would be biases of that sort, too.

So who decides in a situation if it is not your conscious mind?

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:05 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:04 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:47 pm
Are you talking about a bias that you are not aware of it?

Not necessarily, but there would be biases of that sort, too.

So who decides in a situation if it is not your conscious mind?

I'm not saying that you'd not make a conscious decision. But a bias could be unconscious. If it turns out that 75% of the time, over many iterations, someone chooses one button over the other, even though as far as they are thinking about it, they have no preference, they have an unconscious bias by definition.

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:24 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:05 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:04 pm

Not necessarily, but there would be biases of that sort, too.

So who decides in a situation if it is not your conscious mind?

I'm not saying that you'd not make a conscious decision. But a bias could be unconscious. If it turns out that 75% of the time, over many iterations, someone chooses one button over the other, even though as far as they are thinking about it, they have no preference, they have an unconscious bias by definition.

How a bias could be unconscious?

[quote=bahman post_id=496669 time=1613492804 user_id=12593]
How a bias could be unconscious?
[/quote]

Bias just means tendency. It's necessary to remove the emotional component. There are unconscious tendencies because we are a mind of two degrees of access, unconscious and conscious.

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:26 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:24 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:05 pm
So who decides in a situation if it is not your conscious mind?

I'm not saying that you'd not make a conscious decision. But a bias could be unconscious. If it turns out that 75% of the time, over many iterations, someone chooses one button over the other, even though as far as they are thinking about it, they have no preference, they have an unconscious bias by definition.

How a bias could be unconscious?

Due to physiological factors, including brain structure and function, that one isn't consciously aware of.

Advocate wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:28 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:26 pm How a bias could be unconscious?

Bias just means tendency. It's necessary to remove the emotional component. There are unconscious tendencies because we are a mind of two degrees of access, unconscious and conscious.

There is no such thing as an unconscious mind. Everything is conscious.

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:36 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:26 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:24 pm

I'm not saying that you'd not make a conscious decision. But a bias could be unconscious. If it turns out that 75% of the time, over many iterations, someone chooses one button over the other, even though as far as they are thinking about it, they have no preference, they have an unconscious bias by definition.

How a bias could be unconscious?

Due to physiological factors, including brain structure and function, that one isn't consciously aware of.

So your brain decides instead of you on some occasion?

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:43 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:36 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:26 pm
How a bias could be unconscious?

Due to physiological factors, including brain structure and function, that one isn't consciously aware of.

So your brain decides instead of you on some occasion?

First off, you aren't something different than your brain. Secondly, no one is saying that the decision isn't conscious. It wouldn't be a decision in that case. It's that there can be a bias that's not conscious. The bias can influence what you decide without you being aware of it. This is definitely the case in many real world scenarios, which we can demonstrate simply by someone (a) tending to pick one thing over another, and (b) that person being unaware that they're doing this or at least being unaware why they're doing it.

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:52 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:43 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:36 pm

Due to physiological factors, including brain structure and function, that one isn't consciously aware of.

So your brain decides instead of you on some occasion?

First off, you aren't something different than your brain. Secondly, no one is saying that the decision isn't conscious. It wouldn't be a decision in that case. It's that there can be a bias that's not conscious. The bias can influence what you decide without you being aware of it.

Nonsense.

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:06 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:52 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:43 pm
So your brain decides instead of you on some occasion?

First off, you aren't something different than your brain. Secondly, no one is saying that the decision isn't conscious. It wouldn't be a decision in that case. It's that there can be a bias that's not conscious. The bias can influence what you decide without you being aware of it.

Nonsense.

Good argument.

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:08 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:06 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:52 pm

First off, you aren't something different than your brain. Secondly, no one is saying that the decision isn't conscious. It wouldn't be a decision in that case. It's that there can be a bias that's not conscious. The bias can influence what you decide without you being aware of it.

Nonsense.

Good argument.

Did this ever occurred to you, you decide to do something then you do something else?

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:28 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:08 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:06 pm
Nonsense.

Good argument.

Did this ever occurred to you, you decide to do something then you do something else?

Sure.

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:31 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:28 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:08 pm
Good argument.

Did this ever occurred to you, you decide to do something then you do something else?

Sure.

So for example you decide to have a bite of an apple but drink tea instead?

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:34 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:31 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:28 pm
Did this ever occurred to you, you decide to do something then you do something else?

Sure.

So for example you decide to have a bite of an apple but drink tea instead?

A real life example would be that I decided to take bike a certain route but then biked another route on impulse instead.