Philosophy Now Forum

raw_thought wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:14 pm Of course " somewhere it is raining" and" somewhere it is not raining" is not a contradiction.

Then you are applying a double standard with respect to spacetime.

P is true somewhen.
not-P is true somewhen.

An instant apart!

No. It is raining at a specific point in spacetime and it is not raining at a different point in spacetime. That is not a contradiction.

raw_thought wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:21 pm No. It is raining at a specific point in spacetime and it is not raining at a different point in spacetime. That is not a contradiction.

It's raining here. Now.
it's not raining here. Now.

Same space coordinates.
Different time coordinates.

The LNC is expressed as P ∧ ¬P

Which spacetime coordinate does P represent?
Which spacetime coordinate does ¬P represent?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:14 pm

raw_thought wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:12 pm from a contradiction everything follows

That is not true in all logics. It's only true in explosive logics.

The principle of explosion ALWAYS leads to all conclusions in conventional logic. Are we to debate paraconsistent logic? Most logicians believe that paraconsistent logic only applies at the quantum level. How a square circle can exist is beyond me.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:22 pm

raw_thought wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:21 pm No. It is raining at a specific point in spacetime and it is not raining at a different point in spacetime. That is not a contradiction.

It's raining here. Now.
it's not raining here. Now.

Same space coordinates.
Different time coordinates.

The LNC is expressed as P ∧ ¬P

Which spacetime coordinate does P represent?
Which spacetime coordinate does ¬P represent?

And that is not a contradiction. If I say that I have a female sibling and a male sibling I am not contradicting myself.

You wrote, "It's raining here. Now.
it's not raining here. Now.

Same space coordinates.
Different time coordinates.'
Obviously we are talking about 2 different points in spacetime.

It is not a contradiction to say that it is raining now but it was clear yesterday.

raw_thought wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:27 pm The principle of explosion ALWAYS leads to all conclusions in conventional logic.

Yes. In conventional logic.

Why are you biased towards conventional logic over unconventional logic?

raw_thought wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:27 pm Are we to debate paraconsistent logic? Most logicians believe that paraconsistent logic only applies at the quantum level.

I am debating logic. I don't discriminate against any. particular logic system.

raw_thought wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:27 pm How a square circle can exist is beyond me.

And yet they exist: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicab_geometry#Circles

Is only your imagination that's lacking.

raw_thought wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:30 pm It is not a contradiction to say that it is raining now but it was clear yesterday.

How small a duration between the two events do you need for it to become a cotnradiction?

raw_thought wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:28 pm You wrote, "It's raining here. Now.
it's not raining here. Now.

Same space coordinates.
Different time coordinates.'
Obviously we are talking about 2 different points in spacetime.

No. I am talking about the same point in space.
Different point in time.

It's raining. Now.
It's raining. Now.
It's raining. Now.
It's raining. Now.
It's raining. Now.
It's raining. Now.
It's raining. Now.
It's not raining. Now.
It's not raining. Now.
It's not raining. Now.

How many "nows" are there?

raw_thought wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:30 pm It is not a contradiction to say that it is raining now but it was clear yesterday.

Well, you would be correct. The definition of the LNC deals with time. But it doesn't deal with space.

"contradictory propositions cannot both be true in the same sense at the same time"

So it's raining NOW and it's not raining NOW (for the same NOW, but different WHERE) is a dialetheia.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:34 pm

raw_thought wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:28 pm You wrote, "It's raining here. Now.
it's not raining here. Now.

Same space coordinates.
Different time coordinates.'
Obviously we are talking about 2 different points in spacetime.

No. I am talking about the same point in space.
Different point in time.

It's raining. Now.
It's raining. Now.
It's raining. Now.
It's raining. Now.
It's raining. Now.
It's raining. Now.
It's raining. Now.
It's not raining. Now.
It's not raining. Now.
It's not raining. Now.

How many "nows" are there?

In other words 2 different points in spacetime/

magine a time line. a_____b_____c. "a" relative to "b" is in the past. "b" relative to "c" is in the past.
"b" relative to "a" is in the future. However, "b" relative to "c" is in the past. Einstein was saying that there is no absolute past or absolute future points. Your "objection" is silly. Einstein was not saying that 2 events cannot be related by a past future relationship. Your objection is like if I say, " Detroit is west of New York and east of San Francisco. " Then you say " do not be daft there is a difference between east and west. "
My "now" might not be your "now". However, that does not mean that I can travel into my past. .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativit ... multaneity
Of course you can dispute Relativity. But just remember that it has been confirmed!
https://www.space.com/8024-einstein-gen ... irmed.html

raw_thought wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:49 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:34 pm

raw_thought wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:28 pm You wrote, "It's raining here. Now.
it's not raining here. Now.

Same space coordinates.
Different time coordinates.'
Obviously we are talking about 2 different points in spacetime.

No. I am talking about the same point in space.
Different point in time.

It's raining. Now.
It's raining. Now.
It's raining. Now.
It's raining. Now.
It's raining. Now.
It's raining. Now.
It's raining. Now.
It's not raining. Now.
It's not raining. Now.
It's not raining. Now.

How many "nows" are there?

In other words 2 different points in spacetime/

(P and -P) are two different points in spacetime too.

What's your point?