Philosophy Now Forum

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:32 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:22 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:12 pm
I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to get at in posting that picture, VT. Can you elaborate a little. We're all adults here and can surely communicate in rational means.

When you said you were offended by 'schizophrenic' but not by 'has schizophrenia' it reminded me of the 'help spastics' photo I saw earlier today on another site.
I was in no way suggesting you are a spastic (or 'spastic'. I don't think I've ever used the word so I'm not sure what the correct etiquette is). I'm genuinely fascinated by social evolution and how these changes come about.

''Benedict Cumberbatch has come under fire for misguidedly using the word 'coloured' in an interview.''

''Coloured person''=evil to the point of causing unbearable suffering and suicidal depression to those described as such.
''Person of colour''=very very good. Passes the PC code of ethics and 'minimal offending capability scale' with flying colours (can we say colours? )

Fair enough. I guess if I have schizophrenia, then I must be "a schizophrenic". BTW: I checked out the Urban dictionary for a definition of "spastic" and it said that it's a very derogatory insult in Britain [edit: sorry I should say UK] along the lines of calling someone "retarded". Maybe my social development was a bit "retarded" by events that profoundly shaped and contorted my psyche in youth. So I suppose I do fit the label, to whatever degree, of being "retarded" also. From that information I thought maybe you were alluding to me that I am "spastic" by posting the picture. However, I gave you benefit of the doubt and asked what you meant by the picture of whatever device with the word "spastics" on it. I thought I was being charitable but I suppose I was inhibiting your freedom of speech to make me feel like I'm an inferior and defective human being. Maybe, if the shoe fits, then I should just wear it. Nothing in this world is ever really going to change. People will be people. I suppose humanity really is a malicious mutation. Call me "a schizophrenic" or "a retard" if you wish.

Belinda wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:51 pm Veggy wrote:

Disagree all you want. I don't think any yank on here has ever understood a single thing I have written, so one more time isn't going to make a heck of a lot of difference. Thanks for the advice. Have a nice day

You should not say that about Yanks. The best universities in the world are American, last time I saw the league tables.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:39 pmI feel like I'm damaged for the rest of my life and will never be able to fit in with the rest of humanity. I mostly keep to a circle of friends who are also all diagnosed with mental illnesses. They are the only people I can really talk and relate to. Such is life.

Belinda wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:20 pm Gary Childress wrote:

BTW: I checked out the Urban dictionary for a definition of "spastic" and it said that it's a very derogatory insult in Britain [edit: sorry I should say UK] along the lines of calling someone "retarded".

It's bad anywhere, not only in Britain,(I am British and I don't always know what to call the country ) to call someone "a spastic". This is because spasticity should not define a person. It is unpleasant to have spastic muscular movements, and if I had spastic muscular movements I would like to be defined as a person, a woman, an old lady, a Scotswoman, anything which it is okay to be as long as it's not abusive. Similarly we should not refer to "the deaf" and "the blind" as though deaf people and blind people were sectioned off from the rest of society which they are not in any decent company.

It is true that some defects are used as insults. This is bad for the person who employs the insult because they could become a sufferer themself , and then they have insulted themself.

Similarly in any well-run hospital or clinic a patient with schizophrenia is not called "a schizophrenic" . Without a doubt that patient is a well-rounded person and it is disproportionate to identify them by their disability.

There used to be time when patients were referred to as "cases" of this or "cases" of that. Not any longer if the clinician has professional good manners.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:56 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:32 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:22 pm

When you said you were offended by 'schizophrenic' but not by 'has schizophrenia' it reminded me of the 'help spastics' photo I saw earlier today on another site.
I was in no way suggesting you are a spastic (or 'spastic'. I don't think I've ever used the word so I'm not sure what the correct etiquette is). I'm genuinely fascinated by social evolution and how these changes come about.

''Benedict Cumberbatch has come under fire for misguidedly using the word 'coloured' in an interview.''

''Coloured person''=evil to the point of causing unbearable suffering and suicidal depression to those described as such.
''Person of colour''=very very good. Passes the PC code of ethics and 'minimal offending capability scale' with flying colours (can we say colours? )

Fair enough. I guess if I have schizophrenia, then I must be "a schizophrenic". BTW: I checked out the Urban dictionary for a definition of "spastic" and it said that it's a very derogatory insult in Britain [edit: sorry I should say UK] along the lines of calling someone "retarded". Maybe my social development was a bit "retarded" by events that profoundly shaped and contorted my psyche in youth. So I suppose I do fit the label, to whatever degree, of being "retarded" also. From that information I thought maybe you were alluding to me that I am "spastic" by posting the picture. However, I gave you benefit of the doubt and asked what you meant by the picture of whatever device with the word "spastics" on it. I thought I was being charitable but I suppose I was inhibiting your freedom of speech to make me feel like I'm an inferior and defective human being. Maybe, if the shoe fits, then I should just wear it. Nothing in this world is ever really going to change. People will be people. I suppose humanity really is a malicious mutation. Call me "a schizophrenic" or "a retard" if you wish.

We all have problems, Gary. Do you expect special treatment and pity? You didn't get my point and you never will, so there's not a lot of point in continuing with this. I'm offended by your insinuations.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:39 pmHi Greta, yes I understood your use of the word "yank" and knew you didn't mean it in a degrading way. And I understand that there is rough housing and banter from friends that is probably more akin to preparing a person for the same sort of treatment from outsiders. I've also looked back on my experiences from childhood and have come to accept some of my own fault for bringing some of the bad treatment upon myself to whatever degree. However, like I say, it was very traumatic (meaning something that profoundly affected my psyche) to experience what I did in childhood. That's why I am maybe overly sensitive to insults and rough housing. I feel like I'm damaged for the rest of my life and will never be able to fit in with the rest of humanity. I mostly keep to a circle of friends who are also all diagnosed with mental illnesses. They are the only people I can really talk and relate to. Such is life.

Greta wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:24 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:39 pmHi Greta, yes I understood your use of the word "yank" and knew you didn't mean it in a degrading way. And I understand that there is rough housing and banter from friends that is probably more akin to preparing a person for the same sort of treatment from outsiders. I've also looked back on my experiences from childhood and have come to accept some of my own fault for bringing some of the bad treatment upon myself to whatever degree. However, like I say, it was very traumatic (meaning something that profoundly affected my psyche) to experience what I did in childhood. That's why I am maybe overly sensitive to insults and rough housing. I feel like I'm damaged for the rest of my life and will never be able to fit in with the rest of humanity. I mostly keep to a circle of friends who are also all diagnosed with mental illnesses. They are the only people I can really talk and relate to. Such is life.

Yes - "preparing a person for the same sort of treatment ..." - like young animals play wrestling. I unfortunately know the damage too well, Gary, though what we had to deal with had nothing to do with play banter and everything to do with eliminating competition.

I've not met anyone before who copped it as badly at school as I did, so I sympathise. I wouldn't wish it on anyone, well, not many

I was gifted two decades of regularly thinking about suicide with concomitant career and relationship failures and low paid menial jobs despite vocational guidance assessing me as top 1-2% intelligence. Like you, I don't have the feeling of being scarred by the experience so much as having lost a limb. As you noted, there is permanent loss of potential and capacity in life (including loss of mental capacity, which was my main talent and source of fun).

In my naivete, I underestimated the damage of school and was optimistic that I would overcome. Now that I am retired and can look back, it's clear that I'd constructed what most people would deem a dysfunctional, over-solitary, under-achieving life that few would want for themselves. However, retirement has also given me the luxury of mentally panning out from the annoying social gaming of post-apes scuttling around the surface of a world in space, each of us basically organised EM energy received from the Sun. Existence is wild, often uncontrolled, so damage happens, and often plenty worse than what happened to us.

I look back at how I and others have been ready to surrender our lives - our minds, our bodies, everything - just because some stupid brat post-apes harmed us when we were young, and I now see it as crazy. Ditto the ancient Japanese committing hari kuri through shame. A pointless waste caused by society's conditioning that the opinions of others are all-important - that the human world is everything.

Think about it - if society wants obedience then they would say that, wouldn't they? It is a damaging lie, arguably made with good intentions. Yes, people's opinions can practically impact on us, eg. gaining cooperation but they are hugely overrated to keep us obediently within the fold. Politicians show us just how impotent the opinions of others are as they stride coolly through torrents of criticism.

Then consider the lives of countless mystics, geniuses and hermits who left the hurly burly for a deeper mental existence free of the BS and prattle. If there is no part of us that is immune to others' opinions then we are rootless and vulnerable. For me now, hobbies are my core, rather than social interaction - playing music, bushwalking, gardening, existentialist thinking, metaphysics, space - the interests of my childhood that reflect my true inclinations before high school threw me off course. I think it helps to remember who you were before all the BS.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:06 amIn any case I too wish I could just retire from society and be over it. However, social struggle seems to be omnipresent until the day I die. As Sartre observed, there is "no exit". I don't know how many times I have said, "I just don't care anymore". But I always care. I can't help but care. I'm pretty much stuck here until I'm not.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:41 pm

Impenitent wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:36 pm and comrade obama's deal with Iran guarantees peaceful utopia

-Imp

Not a good comment, Impertinent. I think many of us just want to peacefully coexist. I don't think Iran poses much of an existential threat to the US if we don't act with hostility toward them. Obama acted like a relatively responsible leader toward Iran. Nuclear proliferation is, unfortunately, inevitable. Creating tension, issuing ultimatums and threats doesn't help anything. Acting out of fear is not a good.

Melchior wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:50 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:41 pm

Impenitent wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:36 pm and comrade obama's deal with Iran guarantees peaceful utopia

-Imp

Not a good comment, Impertinent. I think many of us just want to peacefully coexist. I don't think Iran poses much of an existential threat to the US if we don't act with hostility toward them. Obama acted like a relatively responsible leader toward Iran. Nuclear proliferation is, unfortunately, inevitable. Creating tension, issuing ultimatums and threats doesn't help anything. Acting out of fear is not a good.

You are an idiot.
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-hist ... s-in-korea

Greta wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:35 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:06 amIn any case I too wish I could just retire from society and be over it. However, social struggle seems to be omnipresent until the day I die. As Sartre observed, there is "no exit". I don't know how many times I have said, "I just don't care anymore". But I always care. I can't help but care. I'm pretty much stuck here until I'm not.

Two old bullying survivors, comparing war wounds. If karma is true I would not want to be those bullies.

Mum used to say, "Stop the world, I want to get off". I can't really speak to my attitudes towards life, they change all the time. Most times I love it but occasionally something trigger all the "stuff" again and I'll lose control of "the negs" for a day or two before, frankly they bore me these days. Been there, done that, goes nowhere.

As for NK, it looks like a wicked problem. If you don't act, they refine their weapons, if you do, then that could lead to nuclear war, which may alleviate global warming but the radiation will offset any benefit. The bottom line is the schism between China and Japan, with SK acting as the Japan/US proxy while NK acts as China's proxy. Thus, to nuke NK is to invite war with China, and that would really screw everyone up to the nth degree.

Maybe best to stock up on Bitcoin?

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:44 am

Greta wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:35 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:06 amIn any case I too wish I could just retire from society and be over it. However, social struggle seems to be omnipresent until the day I die. As Sartre observed, there is "no exit". I don't know how many times I have said, "I just don't care anymore". But I always care. I can't help but care. I'm pretty much stuck here until I'm not.

Two old bullying survivors, comparing war wounds. If karma is true I would not want to be those bullies.

Mum used to say, "Stop the world, I want to get off". I can't really speak to my attitudes towards life, they change all the time. Most times I love it but occasionally something trigger all the "stuff" again and I'll lose control of "the negs" for a day or two before, frankly they bore me these days. Been there, done that, goes nowhere.

As for NK, it looks like a wicked problem. If you don't act, they refine their weapons, if you do, then that could lead to nuclear war, which may alleviate global warming but the radiation will offset any benefit. The bottom line is the schism between China and Japan, with SK acting as the Japan/US proxy while NK acts as China's proxy. Thus, to nuke NK is to invite war with China, and that would really screw everyone up to the nth degree.

Maybe best to stock up on Bitcoin?

Yeah. Just in case of the worst, I just want to get it out there ahead of the curtain that it's a pleasure to meet a fellow survivor of childhood trauma and such an intelligent one. I hope we all make it through this crisis.

Melchior wrote: ↑Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:50 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:41 pm

Impenitent wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:36 pm and comrade obama's deal with Iran guarantees peaceful utopia

-Imp

Not a good comment, Impertinent. I think many of us just want to peacefully coexist. I don't think Iran poses much of an existential threat to the US if we don't act with hostility toward them. Obama acted like a relatively responsible leader toward Iran. Nuclear proliferation is, unfortunately, inevitable. Creating tension, issuing ultimatums and threats doesn't help anything. Acting out of fear is not a good.

You are an idiot.
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-hist ... s-in-korea

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:58 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:51 pm Veggy wrote:

Disagree all you want. I don't think any yank on here has ever understood a single thing I have written, so one more time isn't going to make a heck of a lot of difference. Thanks for the advice. Have a nice day

You should not say that about Yanks. The best universities in the world are American, last time I saw the league tables.

That's debateable. And there is this thing called 'money' that can't buy either love or charm (and your comment has nothing to do with what I wrote).