Philosophy Now Forum

Greatest I am wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:
Do you see Islam as a moral religion?

Regards
DL

All religions are moral, but so few are ethical.

http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/moral

Explain the difference between moral action and ethical action.

Regards
DL

Please refer to your back copies of PN, for a discussion on this.

Greatest I am wrote:

FlashDangerpants wrote:Awesome, so we are done here. You no longer agree with Gustavo's fascist desire to evict Islam from Europe, and you have recognised that imposing a state religion is a terrible and stupid idea.

Do you see Islam as a moral religion?

Regards
DL

I see people as either moral or immoral; tolerant or otherwise; sincere or fraudsters. Religions mean very little to me, I am an atheist.
I have however met practitioners of most religions and most of them are good people, so there is no incompatibility between any religion and being a good person.

It's a straight up fallacy to suppose that any religion has any serious effect on the moral capabilities of its adherents. My granny was a lovely Methodist because she was a nice old lady who wished nobody any harm (occasionally she used the word 'darkie' in a manner I wouldn't recommend though tbh). But those guys who stand outside soldier's funerals with God Hates Fags posters are pretty religious, and reading from the same book as my granny was reading.

If you analyse religion honestly at any level, you will quickly note that all religions somehow end up reinforcing whatever prejudice you hold that you wish God agreed with. Otherwise there would have been no Dutch Reformed Church of South Africa which held some highly un-Jesusy beliefs about Apartheid.

You are mistaking the current status of Islam as the angriest religion with some special category of inherent evil that broad religions (as opposed to actual death cults and suchlike) cannot really have. The seeds of militant Islam lie in centuries of humiliation with in many states no resolution in sight. Before Al Qaeda (with American funding) and Hamas (with Israeli funding - I shit you not) became the standard bearers of angry middle eastern youth, socialist and nationalist factions held that place.

I'm not particularly singling out Christianity as the other bad religion. The current Prime Minister of India is a Hindu nationalist who was involved in, at best, the determined failure to prosecute anybody for massacring a train load of Muslims in an orgy of religious murder. The Rohingya in Burma are being ethnically cleansed by Buddhists.

So I don't see any particular reason to suppose some religion is moral or otherwise, because this is a philosophy forum, and I expect this audience to recognise that question as a simple category mistake.

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote: All religions are moral, but so few are ethical.

http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/moral

Explain the difference between moral action and ethical action.

Regards
DL

Please refer to your back copies of PN, for a discussion on this.

As expected. Not even man enough to recant gracefully.

Regards
DL

FlashDangerpants wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:

FlashDangerpants wrote:Awesome, so we are done here. You no longer agree with Gustavo's fascist desire to evict Islam from Europe, and you have recognised that imposing a state religion is a terrible and stupid idea.

Do you see Islam as a moral religion?

Regards
DL

I see people as either moral or immoral; tolerant or otherwise; sincere or fraudsters. Religions mean very little to me, I am an atheist.
I have however met practitioners of most religions and most of them are good people, so there is no incompatibility between any religion and being a good person.

It's a straight up fallacy to suppose that any religion has any serious effect on the moral capabilities of its adherents. My granny was a lovely Methodist because she was a nice old lady who wished nobody any harm (occasionally she used the word 'darkie' in a manner I wouldn't recommend though tbh). But those guys who stand outside soldier's funerals with God Hates Fags posters are pretty religious, and reading from the same book as my granny was reading.

If you analyse religion honestly at any level, you will quickly note that all religions somehow end up reinforcing whatever prejudice you hold that you wish God agreed with. Otherwise there would have been no Dutch Reformed Church of South Africa which held some highly un-Jesusy beliefs about Apartheid.

You are mistaking the current status of Islam as the angriest religion with some special category of inherent evil that broad religions (as opposed to actual death cults and suchlike) cannot really have. The seeds of militant Islam lie in centuries of humiliation with in many states no resolution in sight. Before Al Qaeda (with American funding) and Hamas (with Israeli funding - I shit you not) became the standard bearers of angry middle eastern youth, socialist and nationalist factions held that place.

I'm not particularly singling out Christianity as the other bad religion. The current Prime Minister of India is a Hindu nationalist who was involved in, at best, the determined failure to prosecute anybody for massacring a train load of Muslims in an orgy of religious murder. The Rohingya in Burma are being ethnically cleansed by Buddhists.

So I don't see any particular reason to suppose some religion is moral or otherwise, because this is a philosophy forum, and I expect this audience to recognise that question as a simple category mistake.

So you cannot discern if Islam is moral or not. Ok.

Regards
DL

That's all you got?

Ok.

Greatest I am wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:
http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/moral

Explain the difference between moral action and ethical action.

Regards
DL

Please refer to your back copies of PN, for a discussion on this.

As expected. Not even man enough to recant gracefully.

Regards
DL

A system of morals are a set of rules to be imposed by the religious authority. Ethics and ethical is a discussion about the consequences of moral acts and suggestions as to how we might improve social behaviours.

An idiot moralist demands others recant. An ethicist wants to understand another's view and to have a discussion on matters of moral content.

Greatest I am wrote: So you cannot discern if Islam is moral or not. Ok.

Regards
DL

It is the exact epitome of morality, and brooks very little discussion on ethics.
Morality is bolstered by dogma and cant. That is what a religion thrives on.
And any successful religion has to do the same thing. It is designed to "BIND", people to a single song-sheet.

Your view of a single state-religion is a nonsense. We already have that in the UK and atheism is growing because of it.

FlashDangerpants wrote:That's all you got?

Ok.

No, but I do not lack the moral discernment that you do.

Regards
DL

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

Greatest I am wrote: So you cannot discern if Islam is moral or not. Ok.

Regards
DL

It is the exact epitome of morality, and brooks very little discussion on ethics.
Morality is bolstered by dogma and cant. That is what a religion thrives on.
And any successful religion has to do the same thing. It is designed to "BIND", people to a single song-sheet.

Your view of a single state-religion is a nonsense. We already have that in the UK and atheism is growing because of it.

Exactly why it is good to have one.

It helps people see what is moral and what is not. People then choose the most moral and that is not religions.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

Greatest I am wrote: So you cannot discern if Islam is moral or not. Ok.

Regards
DL

It is the exact epitome of morality, and brooks very little discussion on ethics.
Morality is bolstered by dogma and cant. That is what a religion thrives on.
And any successful religion has to do the same thing. It is designed to "BIND", people to a single song-sheet.

Your view of a single state-religion is a nonsense. We already have that in the UK and atheism is growing because of it.

Exactly why it is good to have one.

DL

And that is why you are a fascist and I am a free thinker.

Greatest I am wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

Greatest I am wrote: So you cannot discern if Islam is moral or not. Ok.

Regards
DL

It is the exact epitome of morality, and brooks very little discussion on ethics.
Morality is bolstered by dogma and cant. That is what a religion thrives on.
And any successful religion has to do the same thing. It is designed to "BIND", people to a single song-sheet.

Your view of a single state-religion is a nonsense. We already have that in the UK and atheism is growing because of it.

Exactly why it is good to have one.

It helps people see what is moral and what is not. People then choose the most moral and that is not religions.

Regards
DL

Rubbish.
Religion is exactly what you do not want if you want an ethical world. Religion tells people what is moral. we need that like ahole in the head.

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
It is the exact epitome of morality, and brooks very little discussion on ethics.
Morality is bolstered by dogma and cant. That is what a religion thrives on.
And any successful religion has to do the same thing. It is designed to "BIND", people to a single song-sheet.

Your view of a single state-religion is a nonsense. We already have that in the UK and atheism is growing because of it.

Exactly why it is good to have one.

DL

And that is why you are a fascist and I am a free thinker.

Yet you did not consider, while throwing your labels at me, that England is seen as one of the most democratic nations on the planet.

You may think freely but not as well as you could.

Regards
DL

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
It is the exact epitome of morality, and brooks very little discussion on ethics.
Morality is bolstered by dogma and cant. That is what a religion thrives on.
And any successful religion has to do the same thing. It is designed to "BIND", people to a single song-sheet.

Your view of a single state-religion is a nonsense. We already have that in the UK and atheism is growing because of it.

Exactly why it is good to have one.

It helps people see what is moral and what is not. People then choose the most moral and that is not religions.

Regards
DL

Rubbish.
Religion is exactly what you do not want if you want an ethical world. Religion tells people what is moral. we need that like ahole in the head.

Seems we agree.

Although your reading comprehension needs work.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:
Exactly why it is good to have one.

DL

And that is why you are a fascist and I am a free thinker.

Yet you did not consider, while throwing your labels at me, that England is seen as one of the most democratic nations on the planet.

You may think freely but not as well as you could.

Regards
DL

The UK is by no estimation the most democratic of nations by a long chalk. Not that I this fact has much to do with the discussion at hand.
There are four countries in Northern Europe that beat the Uk on that scale... wait, five!
Oh wait - you said "England" I can think of nine Northern European countries that have better democracies that "England".
Maybe you are not thinking as clearly as I am freely?

Greatest I am wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:
Exactly why it is good to have one.

It helps people see what is moral and what is not. People then choose the most moral and that is not religions.

Regards
DL

Rubbish.
Religion is exactly what you do not want if you want an ethical world. Religion tells people what is moral. we need that like ahole in the head.

Seems we agree.

Although your reading comprehension needs work.

Regards
DL

Ethics cannot be based on an authority figure telling everyone how to behave. It just does not work unless you want resentment and unhappiness.