Philosophy Now Forum

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

sthitapragya wrote: Shouldn't intrinsic value be independent of biological life too?

No values, extrinsic or extrinsic can be said to be independent. Values, are by their very nature relative, and subjective.

If you don't get what I mean, give an example of an 'intrinsic value" and I'' show you how it is relative.

HC, I am in your camp. I also believe there are no intrinsic values. You did not read the previous posts so you took my question out of context.

sthitapragya wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

sthitapragya wrote: Shouldn't intrinsic value be independent of biological life too?

No values, extrinsic or extrinsic can be said to be independent. Values, are by their very nature relative, and subjective.

If you don't get what I mean, give an example of an 'intrinsic value" and I'' show you how it is relative.

HC, I am in your camp. I also believe there are no intrinsic values. You did not read the previous posts so you took my question out of context.

When belief is all you show, go belief camping.

A_Seagull wrote:People like to believe that they are special, heave a unique relationship to God, have intrinsic value etc etc.

And people, being the smart creatures that they are, come up with all manner of arguments to justify this specialness.

Argumentum ad hominem is a logical fallacy not because someone said so, although someone did.

Truth is, not only is everyone special but everyone is beautiful, in their own way.

The specialness is inherent and caused by biological complexity, not comparison. And not just biology complexity unless mind is biology, because mind has a great energy potential not found in the density of white and gray matter or uranium.

Rarity and inherent value appear to go hand-in-hand, and the rare often appears in concentrations. Mind energy, i.e. that of greatest inherent value, concentrates upon earth and maybe elsewhere, given the odds.

Gold is not why man expands his horizons by seeking life in the universe. It is because he seeks that which has the greatest inherent value. Life. Funny thing is it surrounds and is him.

The very urge to seek this greatest inherent value of life may itself be inherent.

Walker wrote: When belief is all you show, go belief camping.

You just like goading people, don't you. I can understand you getting all het up because I don't believe in your God, but now you have a problem if I don't believe there is intrinsic value to anything? What kind of mind do you have that you cannot accept someone having a differing view on anything? How immature can you be? If this is what belief in God does to people, I really thank God I am an atheist. And now off you go back on my ignore list, little chihuahua. It was stupid of me to take you off it thinking maybe you had changed.

sthitapragya wrote:

Walker wrote: When belief is all you show, go belief camping.

You just like goading people, don't you. I can understand you getting all het up because I don't believe in your God, but now you have a problem if I don't believe there is intrinsic value to anything? What kind of mind do you have that you cannot accept someone having a differing view on anything? How immature can you be? If this is what belief in God does to people, I really thank God I am an atheist. And now off you go back on my ignore list, little chihuahua. It was stupid of me to take you off it thinking maybe you had changed.

Argumentum ad hominem: see above, youngster.

"dp desired an explanation of the topic. He didn’t get one. You did."

Yeah, but I wasn't lookin' for one, don't need one...intrinsic value is poop.

henry quirk wrote:"dp desired an explanation of the topic. He didn’t get one. You did."

Yeah, but I wasn't lookin' for one, don't need one...intrinsic value is poop.

Well, I actually did get clarification, and also think intrinsic value is poop. Same as when I came into this.

I'm glad you got what you were lookin' for, what you asked for...that's a good thing.

Walker wrote:

sthitapragya wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
No values, extrinsic or extrinsic can be said to be independent. Values, are by their very nature relative, and subjective.

If you don't get what I mean, give an example of an 'intrinsic value" and I'' show you how it is relative.

HC, I am in your camp. I also believe there are no intrinsic values. You did not read the previous posts so you took my question out of context.

When belief is all you show, go belief camping.

I have no way to address this bizarre reaction. If you want a reaction, you will have to explain why you think you statement is relevant to what I say.

Walker wrote:

sthitapragya wrote:

Walker wrote: When belief is all you show, go belief camping.

You just like goading people, don't you. I can understand you getting all het up because I don't believe in your God, but now you have a problem if I don't believe there is intrinsic value to anything? What kind of mind do you have that you cannot accept someone having a differing view on anything? How immature can you be? If this is what belief in God does to people, I really thank God I am an atheist. And now off you go back on my ignore list, little chihuahua. It was stupid of me to take you off it thinking maybe you had changed.

Argumentum ad hominem: see above, youngster.

1) What sthitapragya says here is not an Ad hom. He was making a remark about you. He was not saying you are disqualified from making an argument because of who you are. He was simply explaining that you are on the ropes and thrashing out by goading.

2) By making your false claim about sthitapragya's remark being an ad hom, you are demonstrating that his remark ;"You just like goading people, don't you.: is totally accurate.

3) You have to make an argument in order to be traduced as a raving Theist for being incapable of making one. First make an argument for your position, then we'll see.

henry quirk wrote:"dp desired an explanation of the topic. He didn’t get one. You did."

Yeah, but I wasn't lookin' for one, don't need one...intrinsic value is poop.

The idea does have its uses. For example if you had a golden dollar dated 1800, there are three values you could talk about.
1) The face value. One dollar.
2) The intrinsic value. In this case it would be the value of the raw gold in terms of the current market value of scrap gold.
3) The market value of the coin in its condition to a coin dealer.

As you see, intrinsic values, is like all value relative.

Yep.

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

Walker wrote:

sthitapragya wrote:
You just like goading people, don't you. I can understand you getting all het up because I don't believe in your God, but now you have a problem if I don't believe there is intrinsic value to anything? What kind of mind do you have that you cannot accept someone having a differing view on anything? How immature can you be? If this is what belief in God does to people, I really thank God I am an atheist. And now off you go back on my ignore list, little chihuahua. It was stupid of me to take you off it thinking maybe you had changed.

Argumentum ad hominem: see above, youngster.

1) What sthitapragya says here is not an Ad hom. He was making a remark about you.

Oh really? Well then, fuck him.

He should deal with content rather than his special little beliefs for which he seeks agreement, since I’ve presented plenty for discussion that has been ignored in favor of pursuing pettiness, such as your posting here.

You should deal with content, too. The only argument for the professor's position has already been presented. By me. As requested.

No one really cares what you or what's his name believes. Make a rational presentation for a change. Such a presentation would be ordered, and thus intrinsically more valuable than belief unsupported by rationality.

Learn it, live it, love it.

Dalek Prime wrote:

henry quirk wrote:"dp desired an explanation of the topic. He didn’t get one. You did."

Yeah, but I wasn't lookin' for one, don't need one...intrinsic value is poop.

Well, I actually did get clarification, and also think intrinsic value is poop. Same as when I came into this.

Regarding the rest of your stated concern, the lecturer refused to discuss the topic because of various possibilities stemming from the same source.

Greta wrote:

Dalek Prime wrote:... would not respond to my asking what gives a rock value.

I'll have a go at this if you don't mind a small veer off topic.

Each rock is part of larger processes, and each process is moving towards one end - equilibrium. The rock has intrinsic value in playing its small part in the continuing rebuilding and development of post-BB reality. Like the rock, we also seek equilibrium, just that the rock is more subject to chaos than us animals.

Hi greta just wondering where you got the idea that us and rocks are moving towards equilibrium.

I am just wondering because the idea that the universe/everything resides in equilibrium came to me. To me, the TOE is the one Universe is made of two basic elements which coexist together in equilibrium.