Nonprofit Organizations Are the Bane of Civilization

[Obvious Leo]

At that point, we will probably demand secession from an international stage.

Leave it with me, Bob, I have the matter in hand. What we'll do is dismantle the United States brick by brick and move the whole fucking lot to Pluto, where the inhabitants are more likely to be appreciative of our superiority. We'll just leave planet earth behind to crumble to bits in its own good time as it slowly gets taken over by the lefty, greeny, pinko, bleeding-heart, tree-hugging neo-bolsheviks.

[Scott Mayers]

Bob, what is this AEP thing? You appear to be strongly conservative (or economically liberal = neoliberal?) and so I'm guessing that your take on any government with regards to economy is to completely limit government capacity to be involved in any realistic way here. Is this correct and why?

The American Energy Party (AEP) is my theoretical political party whose modus operandi is the Champagne Sherry Principle, which involves getting people to vote for you and not the candidate. A college friend at the University of Wisconsin had a girlfriend named Sherry who was running for prom queen. Her posters had a picture of two bubbly champagne glasses and the slogan "Vote for Champagne Sherry." I wouldn't have walked across the street to vote for anybody for anything, but he was able to figuratively drag me across the campus to vote for her. She did win the election, and while I'm sure it wasn't due to my vote, I later became cognizant of the fundamental political truth embodied in the Champagne Sherry Principle. The AEP will be unlike any other political party on Earth in that all candidates are selected by AEP headquarters, which also gives all elected officials their marching orders. Other political parties are merely associations. The AEP will begin by selecting the ideal State, and within that State the ideal County, and within that County the ideal town. The logo of the AEP is a circle with three partial inner circles, reminiscent of a combination of the Eiffel Tower and the Mercedes-Benz logo. On the bottom circle there will sometimes be a baby gorilla (transposition of AEP to APE) sitting on the circle and holding on to the left and right circles. This mascot will be especially attractive to young future AEP members, The formal logo will be worn at one of the points of a shirt collar. The AEP flag will be an abstract white star in the upper left quadrant on a field of red with shards of light streaming from the points to the borders of the flag. We will take over the state, town by town and county by county. At that point, we will probably demand secession from an international stage.

This sounds like you're merely emphasizing how such a party attracts rather than its content. How do you distinguish between one who "votes for you" as opposed to a "candidate"? You emphasize interest in propaganda and I can't make sense also of what you think an "association" is. If you're referring to a legal definition, what are you contrasting it with?

[Hobbes' Choice]

Bob. As you know I can't wait to join up and I'm busy processing the paperwork even as we speak. You may wish to consider affiliating our party with the Monster Raving Loony Party of Great Britain which appears to be pursuing a similar agenda, although sadly without the guns.

How Dare You!! Screaming Lord Such would never associate himself with this nonsense!
http://www.loonyparty.com

As you can see their manifesto has far more sensible policies in it.


Manifesto (A-Z)

A.AIR bags will be fitted to the Stock Exchange immediately, ready for the next crash.

B. BRITAIN will exit Europe and join the Duchy of Cornwall to benefit from tax exemptions.

C. CAPITAL Punishment will be opposed on the grounds that it is unfair to Londoners.

D. DATA will be secured, placed in a brown bag and hidden in the PM’s socks and pants drawer.

E. Education. All University Tuition fees for women would be free as we are strong believers in Female intuition. (Due to gender equality laws we would include males as well)

F. FRIVOLOUS Fraud Office setup to inspect fraud too silly for the Serious Fraud Office.

G. GREYHOUND racing will be banned to prevent the country going to the dogs.

H. HALF the grey squirrels will be painted red to increase the red squirrel population.

I. INNOCENT prisoners will be released in order to reduce prison overcrowding.

J. JOBSEEKERS will be made to stand two abreast in order to halve dole queues.

K. KIDS will be made to sit closer together on smaller desks in to reduce school class sizes.

L. LONDON Marathon free to anyone finishing in sub-2 hours wearing large clown’s shoes.

M. MEGA carwash will be created by punching holes in the roof of the Channel Tunnel.

N. NATIONAL debt will be cleared by putting it all on our credit card.

O. OAPS will qualify for a Summer Ice Lolly Allowance if temperatures exceed 70 degrees.

P. PUDDLES deeper than 3 inches will be marked by a yellow plastic duck.

Q. QUITTERS will be encouraged not to start in the first place to improve their self esteem.

R. REGULATIONS concerning car boot sales will be relaxed to permit selling of all car parts.

S.STAMP duty will be cancelled as stamps are expensive enough without having to pay duty.

T.TERRORISTS will be made to wear Bells and Horns so we know where they are.

U.UNRULY teenagers will be superglued together as if you can’t beat them, join them.

V. VEHICLES will be fitted with bungy ropes in order to save fuel on the return journey.

W. WIND farms will be created nationwide, where breaking wind will be encouraged.

X. X-RAY machines will be manned by a skeleton staff.

Y. YELLOW lines will be painted where you can park instead of where you can’t to save money.

Z. ZEBRA crossings will be made permissible to all animals wishing to cross the road.

[bobevenson]

This sounds like you're merely emphasizing how such a party attracts rather than its content. How do you distinguish between one who "votes for you" as opposed to a "candidate"? You emphasize interest in propaganda and I can't make sense also of what you think an "association" is. If you're referring to a legal definition, what are you contrasting it with?

I didn't get into any AEP political positions because I just felt like talking about the logo, flag and operating principle. Actually, that should be enough to make anybody salivate. The main political position of the AEP is that the only proper function of government is social integration. Government should not own, operate, support or promote anything. The only proper form of taxation is a single tax on property, property being defined as anything with intrinsic market value. All other government income should be abolished, including all other taxes such as income and sales tax, judicial fines, confiscation of property, etc. All licensing of occupations should be abolished. No restrictions on voting -- everybody has a right to vote, including the criminally insane and babies in utero. No restrictions on buying and selling. Any store can sell anything 24/7 that is legally available (and that includes just about everything). Does that give you a pretty good idea of what the AEP is all about? Regarding your question about voting for you rather than the candidate, when I voted for Champagne Sherry, I was actually voting for her boyfriend and not her. That's the operating principle of the AEP, developing relationships with people throughout the year, and not just asking for their vote at election time. Regarding your point about "association," I meant to use the word "affiliation." Democrats and Republicans merely have a party affiliation, they don't march in lockstep like AEP candidates and officeholders.

[Hobbes' Choice]

The main political position of the AEP is that the only proper function of government is social integration. ]

You are like a moronic scratched record.
A government without resources, and without employees is powerless to have any function.
What happens to all the unemployed police, army, navy, fire and coast guard services?
Let those out on the streets with weapons experience and no job, and you have Mad Max.

[bobevenson]

The main political position of the AEP is that the only proper function of government is social integration. ]

You are like a moronic scratched record.
A government without resources, and without employees is powerless to have any function.
What happens to all the unemployed police, army, navy, fire and coast guard services?
Let those out on the streets with weapons experience and no job, and you have Mad Max.

I'm sorry, but you simply don't understand the political concept of the AEP. The government is funded through taxation as described, and oversees the social integration that is accomplished through private companies that are ultimately hired and paid by the government.

[Hobbes' Choice]

The main political position of the AEP is that the only proper function of government is social integration. ]

You are like a moronic scratched record.
A government without resources, and without employees is powerless to have any function.
What happens to all the unemployed police, army, navy, fire and coast guard services?
Let those out on the streets with weapons experience and no job, and you have Mad Max.

I'm sorry, but you simply don't understand the political concept of the AEP. The government is funded through taxation as described, and oversees the social integration that is accomplished through private companies that are ultimately hired and paid by the government.

How is taxation collected?
who does the hiring and firing?

[bobevenson]

How is taxation collected? Who does the hiring and firing?

An assigned private consulting group selects and controls the company doing the actual work. Taxes are paid monthly like a utility bill, whether it's a company like General Motors or an individual like Bill Gates or some guy working at McDonald's.

[Scott Mayers]

This sounds like you're merely emphasizing how such a party attracts rather than its content. How do you distinguish between one who "votes for you" as opposed to a "candidate"? You emphasize interest in propaganda and I can't make sense also of what you think an "association" is. If you're referring to a legal definition, what are you contrasting it with?

I didn't get into any AEP political positions because I just felt like talking about the logo, flag and operating principle. Actually, that should be enough to make anybody salivate. The main political position of the AEP is that the only proper function of government is social integration.

What do you mean by, "social integration"?

Government should not own, operate, support or promote anything.

A "government" is merely a management system intended to serve the goals by the particular people who set it up by force. Such 'force' is either by some individual (dictatorship), some particular group (nationality/religion), some set of groups (plurality of particular interests), or the whole (democracy). [This may not be appropriately complete]

What I don't think you understand is that such an entity is set up by one of these but is usually only agreed to best when set up as democratic to appeal to as many people as possible. This means that for democratic forms, they have to be set up to maximize the means of which laws are created and enforced by the peoples will, not what any subset thinks is needed FOR the people by their own internal standards.

To say that the government should NOT own things is saying that you believe the people should not as a whole have reserved properties that belong to all of us collectively. In such a condition, this would mean that every piece of property would require being 'owned' by particular individuals or subsets of the whole who get to create their own rules of how others should respect them according to their own selfish benefit regardless of others, especially those who don't 'own' anything by default. This is absurd for many reasons.
(1) It discriminates against non-owners and enslaves them to those who have the 'ownership' rights to dictate their wills upon those who necessarily MUST exist on such or dependent upon them in their survival (like food, water, etc.)
(2) Such absolute ownership privilege would require a means to enforce it. How would this possibly be done without these 'owners' to be able to assure compliance using some unbalanced privilege to powers of control over all policing and have a means to maintain absolute strict measures of who has the means of technologies used to assure this (such as weapons, for instance).

To say a government should not 'operate' anything, does this not also include its own function to create laws? As such, you'd have to presume some fixed standards of laws that act as a strict code of conduct without any ability to deal with changes or specific circumstances. How would we do without a justice system that allows a means to rectify disagreements? Do you propose skipping such and allow those police the private owners have privilege to operate to simply become the judge and jury too?
What about infrastructures, like roads, bridges, sewage, waste disposal, water supplies, etc, etc, etc, that serve the people as a whole? If private citizens have power to 'own' all operations external to the whole, how do you think this would create a productive society? We'd either have tolls explicitly everywhere for everything AND, since we'd have no means to address any unfairness by these absolute 'owners', why would you presume they'd default to appealing to any acts that don't benefit them personally?

Governments should not support or promote anything? Oh, wait, except for those things you feel support or promote privilege to the complete transfer of such powers to the 'owners' who own up all lands and have absolute privilege to support or promote their own ideas to those who lack such privilege.

I could go on with all your claims but I'll leave it at this thus far to absorb and think about. I've had friends who thought of some ideal that attempts to remove government such as you here. But they've often come around when they recognize the actual realities for what they are. I hope you too will be able to come to terms with this.

[Obvious Leo]

Scott. Your'e not playing the game properly. You're trying to make sense of what Bob is saying instead of simply accepting him as the messiah. I hope you don't seriously expect that he'll be able to even understand your carefully composed commentary, let alone offer an intelligent response to it. Bob doesn't do intelligent responses, he does proclamations.

[Scott Mayers]

Scott. Your'e not playing the game properly. You're trying to make sense of what Bob is saying instead of simply accepting him as the messiah. I hope you don't seriously expect that he'll be able to even understand your carefully composed commentary, let alone offer an intelligent response to it. Bob doesn't do intelligent responses, he does proclamations.

Sorry Leo, but I have known many people who opt to simply opt to keep their views to themselves except in company of friends of the same views. As such, they refuse to even talk things like politics or religion in fear of being challenged. So I welcome others like Bob who voice their opinions to discuss even if potentially wrong. Charity works better than insults because while we all are hesitant to admit where we are 'wrong', insults only create a motive to maintain their stances while granting charity at least encourages them to be willing to listen to their critics without such motives.

I get that many of us are merely being casual or humorous and unintending harm upon others by our insults. But some internalize it without knowing this. I've met others who at first took similar stances as Bob who turn out to have very good powers of reasoning but lacked the practice with fair participants willing to take them seriously.

[Obvious Leo]

Scott. I think you're misreading our man. He doesn't expect anybody to take him seriously and I don't for a moment believe that he takes himself seriously. He's what we call a shit-stirrer in my country, a bloke who drops a firecracker in your pocket just so he can watch you jump up and down. To be honest I reckon forums like this need people like Bob because he makes us examine our own eternal verities and think them through properly. I congratulate you on your above post because it's an excellent example of such a self-examination which casts some further light on the nature of the human journey. That's why where all here, mate, to share ideas and learn from each other, not to receive our truths eternally cast into stone tablets.

[Gary Childress]

After seeing your post Mr Mayers, I have to apologize for my own lack of charitableness. I shouldn't have posted the tin foil hat picture.

My apologies to Mr Evenson. Although I am still skeptical of this "AEP" and how realistic it is.

[bobevenson]

Scott, you're trying to make sense of what Bob is saying instead of simply accepting him as the messiah.

A more complete description is that I am Bob the Baptist, the new guru, the modern messiah, the wizard of Ouzo, and a divinely inspired prophet of all things spiritual, political and economic.

[bobevenson]

I am still skeptical of this "AEP" and how realistic it is.

How can you be skeptical when I've stated the fundamental position of the AEP, its modus operandi, where it will begin and how it will expand, a description of its logo and flag, its adversarial position to higher levels of political control, and its ultimate goal? What do I have to do, write a book?