Philosophy Now Forum

HexHammer wrote:..that's why so many Christians in USA voted for the 2nd Iraq War ?!?! ..yearh ..u don't have a fucking clue!

Funny, but I don't remember seeing that question on my ballot, but if it was on your's, why did you vote for it?

Telling right from wrong is easy, but If you don't want to agree with me, I can't stop you from being wrong.

Vor wrote:Then why did he say If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. John 14.15

Note exactly what He said: "If you love me...," not "If you want Me to love you..." It makes all the difference in the world.

It shows that obedience to Christ is an act and expression of love from mankind to God. It is not a favour done for God, nor is it a way of buying God's favour. In other words, it is not a precondition of a relationship with God, but rather a reaction to an existing relationship with God.

Immanuel Can wrote:

Vor wrote:Then why did he say If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. John 14.15

Note exactly what He said: "If you love me...," not "If you want Me to love you..." It makes all the difference in the world.

It shows that obedience to Christ is an act and expression of love from mankind to God. It is not a favour done for God, nor is it a way of buying God's favour. In other words, it is not a precondition of a relationship with God, but rather a reaction to an existing relationship with God.

Well then, if we want to get all nit picky then....what do you think God meant when he said the word " Commandment" as in the 10 ...

Pretty strong word if you ask me, so I'm pretty sure he meant for any scripture to be read keeping them in mind.

thedoc wrote:

HexHammer wrote:..that's why so many Christians in USA voted for the 2nd Iraq War ?!?! ..yearh ..u don't have a fucking clue!

Funny, but I don't remember seeing that question on my ballot, but if it was on your's, why did you vote for it?

I didn't.
1) I don't live in USA

2) I was clever enough to see the false flag about the matter.

3) why do u jump to such retarded conclusion?

HexHammer wrote:

thedoc wrote:

HexHammer wrote:..that's why so many Christians in USA voted for the 2nd Iraq War ?!?! ..yearh ..u don't have a fucking clue!

Funny, but I don't remember seeing that question on my ballot, but if it was on your's, why did you vote for it?

I didn't.
1) I don't live in USA

2) I was clever enough to see the false flag about the matter.

3) why do u jump to such retarded conclusion?

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/executive_power

Doc is right...American's don't vote on whether or not we go to war.

We only vote for the people who make it happen. Which is why we should be held responsible who we vote for....don't you agree, Doc?

artisticsolution wrote:Well then, if we want to get all nit picky then....

If it's "nit picky" to attribute to someone what he actually said rather than what he didn't say, then I'm quite happy to be guilty as charged.

what do you think God meant when he said the word " Commandment" as in the 10 ...Pretty strong word if you ask me, so I'm pretty sure he meant for any scripture to be read keeping them in mind.

As with any commandment, it makes all the difference to whom the commandment is being given. Look at the specifics, and you'll know what was commanded to whom, when, and for what purpose.

And making sure to get those things right is one of the keys to actually being obedient to any commandment. After all, there's absolutely no virtue in following a commandment that was not actually given to you, or for the situation you yourself have in hand.

So to whom were the 10 given, and for what? Those are the questions you need to answer.

Immanuel Can wrote:

artisticsolution wrote:Well then, if we want to get all nit picky then....

If it's "nit picky" to attribute to someone what he actually said rather than what he didn't say, then I'm quite happy to be guilty as charged.

Well, how many times has the bible been translated? If you really want to get nit picky then I would say you'd have to read the original, but I doubt that is doable. So in my mind, your preferred translation does not exactly mean the correct translation. This is the problem with Christians and why they drive so many people away from God. You take an innocent statement of 'good' intentions and spin it into any crazy thing you want. You divide, you rarely inspire.

As with any commandment, it makes all the difference to whom the commandment is being given.

So you think it's okay by God if the one's who didn't receive the commandments, don't follow them? Hmm...interesting. Boy, Christians will do and say anything to get them off the hook of obeying God.

You kiss your mother (Mary) with that mouth?

artisticsolution wrote:Well, how many times has the bible been translated?

Many. It is, in fact, the most often-translated and best translated book in the world, bar none. More scholars have worked on it, more attention has been given to words in more fine detail, and it has been subjected to more critical eyes than any book in human history.

If you really want to get nit picky then I would say you'd have to read the original, but I doubt that is doable.

Actually, it kind of is. We have an exceedingly large basis of manuscript evidence for it, though to find a specific "original" among them would be difficult. Fortunately, the manuscript evidence is exceedingly harmonious, and in the few places where alterations have appeared, we're pretty quickly able to see what changes were made, and why they appeared. Among ancient books, it's the best attested we have.

See for yourself. Here you go: ..http://biblehub.com/interlinear/genesis/1-1.htm. Or here: http://biblehub.com/texts/matthew/1-1.htm

So in my mind, your preferred translation does not exactly mean the correct translation.

I've actually done translation. I know how it works. You're quite correct to think that it is impossible to render one language directly into another word-for-word. But the fun part of translating is deciding how to adapt the idioms or syntax of one language into the syntax and idioms of another. And when it is undertaken over a period of centuries, and is done repeatedly by the world's very best translators (as the Bible has been) then it's actually a very accurate process. But you'd have to have done it to know how it works.

It's easy for someone who hasn't to overestimate the difficulties. Correctness in translation isn't nearly so remote a thing as you might imagine. While some idiomatic flexibility always remains, you can really do a pretty good job of specifying if you're careful and attentive to the manuscript. And at times, translation work is quite poetic and elegant. It can also be highly effective. And as I say, no book in human history has ever received anything near the translation attention that the Bible has. That's not even controversial.

So you think it's okay by God if the one's who didn't receive the commandments, don't follow them?

It's always okay when someone hasn't been commanded to do something doesn't do it. Do you seriously suppose the opposite, that people who haven't been told to do a thing should just decide to do it anyway? How would that work for you in real life?

Does ANYone seriously think that if a god exists that it is those ten rules that s/he/it would command us to follow?
In the first instance, there ain't no ten commandments in the Bible. Take a look there are many more, and not limited or numbered at 10. But only a few of them have any relevance to modern living, and what is more hideous is what they leave out.

But read the first 4 and ask yourself what sort of a insecure, paranoid god would command that!
Then why is there nothing about cheating, racism, gender equality, and child protection.

It all seems a bit me, me, me.
And what the fuck does he want with all those burnt offerings?

Immanuel Can wrote:
It's always okay when someone hasn't been commanded to do something doesn't do it. Do you seriously suppose the opposite, that people who haven't been told to do a thing should just decide to do it anyway? How would that work for you in real life?

Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”

“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

“Which ones?” he inquired.

Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[a] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’”

“All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”

Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

Matthew 19: 16-22

Tell me, Do you really think Jesus didn't mean what he said here?

Hobbes' Choice wrote:Does ANYone seriously think that if a god exists that it is those ten rules that s/he/it would command us to follow?
In the first instance, there ain't no ten commandments in the Bible. Take a look there are many more, and not limited or numbered at 10. But only a few of them have any relevance to modern living, and what is more hideous is what they leave out.

But read the first 4 and ask yourself what sort of a insecure, paranoid god would command that!
Then why is there nothing about cheating, racism, gender equality, and child protection.

It all seems a bit me, me, me.
And what the fuck does he want with all those burnt offerings?

Again Hobbes, I do not want to have a conversation on Christianity, per se...the subject is way too huge for that.

I would like to see a thread discussing "burnt offerings". You should make one!

I mean, take a look at how the one simple little facet of Christian morality has turned into a 7 page debate over what should be considered akin to an innocent childlike understanding of right vs. wrong on the face of it.

Mankind loves to trample the snow.

artisticsolution wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:Does ANYone seriously think that if a god exists that it is those ten rules that s/he/it would command us to follow?
In the first instance, there ain't no ten commandments in the Bible. Take a look there are many more, and not limited or numbered at 10. But only a few of them have any relevance to modern living, and what is more hideous is what they leave out.

But read the first 4 and ask yourself what sort of a insecure, paranoid god would command that!
Then why is there nothing about cheating, racism, gender equality, and child protection.

It all seems a bit me, me, me.
And what the fuck does he want with all those burnt offerings?

Again Hobbes, I do not want to have a conversation on Christianity, per se...the subject is way too huge for that.

I would like to see a thread discussing "burnt offerings". You should make one!

I mean, take a look at how the one simple little facet of Christian morality has turned into a 7 page debate over what should be considered akin to an innocent childlike understanding of right vs. wrong on the face of it.

Mankind loves to trample the snow.

I agree. The trouble is that I.Can thinks that he knows exactly and objectively what god wants, and what is right and wrong. The question is not that simple.
What is good for you might be evil to another, and there is no way to avoid this. I always found this problematic when as a child someone asked if I knew the difference between right and wrong. After seeing a naked Vietnamese child running. covered in napalm burns from American soldiers on TV. A war supported the the majority of the American people, I knew that something was wrong with the idea.
I'm now 55, and nothing I have seen or heard has changed my mind. What really scares me, is people like I Can who thinks the problem is a simple one, just like those sending the drones into kill the innocent.

artisticsolution wrote:Tell me, Do you really think Jesus didn't mean what he said here?

Of course. But in Luke this young man is specifically identified as being a "ruler" (Gk: archon: a general word for a prince, chief or district ruler). So may I ask you, of what place or among what nation was the young man a "ruler"?

artisticsolution wrote:I mean, take a look at how the one simple little facet of Christian morality has turned into a 7 page debate over what should be considered akin to an innocent childlike understanding of right vs. wrong on the face of it.

And who threw out the challenge, and defied Christians to respond?

I do believe your very first post identifies us as the ONLY people to whom you wanted to make relevant note, is that not so?

Do you now feel upset because we took you seriously? Are you offended that we've given you so much time?