Philosophy Now Forum

Arising_uk wrote:Why are Christians so miserable at funerals?

I think that you assessment is a bit off the mark, yes people are sad at the thought of missing having the person around, but they usually take comfort in the promise of the resurrection. So there is usually a balance of Sadness and Joy, but you have to know what to look for, and have the right attitude.

Arising_uk wrote:

Dalek Prime wrote:Yes, I see Atheists doing cartwheels at them. ...

Why should they? Whereas the christian presumably thinks they've gone to 'heaven' or maybe its because they know they've gone to 'hell'?

Question is, why is everyone so happy at births in either a meaningless universe, one with a potentiality for eternal damnation, or one with continual rebirth into Samsara, depending on your beliefs?

Neither, its because birth is a fraught process full of pain and possible death, so they are celebrating survival. They're also celebrating the miracle that is birth in a meaningless universe.

They all suck butcher casings filled with waste meat.

Bit bitter about something?

I really wish you'd stop embedding quotes so deeply. Editing them in response is a pain in the ass, especially on a phone or tablet.

No, I'm not bitter. Those realities are not good. Why shouldnt I say so?

Celebrating survival, when there needn't be the struggle for said in the first place? That's retarded.

Dalek Prime wrote:I really wish you'd stop embedding quotes so deeply. Editing them in response is a pain in the ass, especially on a phone or tablet.

Your problem.

No, I'm not bitter. Those realities are not good. Why shouldnt I say so?

It's your choice of words that exude bitterness.

Celebrating survival, when there needn't be the struggle for said in the first place? That's retarded.

No, what's retarded is thinking that there is anything of value in non-existence.

thedoc wrote:I think that you assessment is a bit off the mark, yes people are sad at the thought of missing having the person around, but they usually take comfort in the promise of the resurrection. So there is usually a balance of Sadness and Joy, but you have to know what to look for, and have the right attitude.

My apologies, when I've been to black christian or Irish funerals the joy and rejoicing is there to see, so I rephrase my question, 'Why are any christians miserable at funerals?;

Arising_uk wrote:

Dalek Prime wrote:I really wish you'd stop embedding quotes so deeply. Editing them in response is a pain in the ass, especially on a phone or tablet.

Your problem.

No, I'm not bitter. Those realities are not good. Why shouldnt I say so?

It's your choice of words that exude bitterness.

Celebrating survival, when there needn't be the struggle for said in the first place? That's retarded.

No, what's retarded is thinking that there is anything of value in non-existence.

No, it's your problem. Keep doing it, and I'll quit answering you.

I felt like writing in that fashion. It's part of my humour.

There's nothing in non-existence, including value. Not my problem you can't follow an argument. And since you can't, and we've been through this already, I'll let you post unanswered in future, at least on this topic. I don't have the patience of the theists here.

Arising_uk wrote:

thedoc wrote:I think that you assessment is a bit off the mark, yes people are sad at the thought of missing having the person around, but they usually take comfort in the promise of the resurrection. So there is usually a balance of Sadness and Joy, but you have to know what to look for, and have the right attitude.

My apologies, when I've been to black christian or Irish funerals the joy and rejoicing is there to see, so I rephrase my question, 'Why are any Christians miserable at funerals?;

Like people in any other group, there are extremes in the reaction. So some will be very miserable, but I would expect that it is for show, because they think they are expected to act that way. I would suspect that it is a carry over from Judaism. In that tradition some do not believe in the after life, so the dead person is truly gone to them and they are sad about it, with no hope.

uwot wrote:What you call evidence for your god is exactly the same evidence that any fully sentient human being on the planet can see.

Oh, good...you're back.

I was wondering where you'd gotten off to.

Did you figure out what the Moral Argument was?

Ready to have your best try at it?

Fire away.

Dalek Prime wrote:No, it's your problem. Keep doing it, and I'll quit answering you.

I'm crushed.

I felt like writing in that fashion. It's part of my humour.

I reply in my fashion as the words dictate.

There's nothing in non-existence, including value. Not my problem you can't follow an argument. And since you can't, and we've been through this already, I'll let you post unanswered in future, at least on this topic. I don't have the patience of the theists here.

But wasn't it you who says there is a 'God' else there's no meaning?

You have no argument other than to just let the human race die out because you can only see suffering. No idea why you wish to hasten our end when the universe will do it for us but I guess it's because you have nothing to value in it.

The is no such thing as 'good' and 'evil' as dictated by the universe or any 'God'. What there is are behaviours by humans that other humans call 'good' or 'evil' according to their bent but all behaviours have a positive intention behind them, you want to change a behaviour find the positive intent and see if it can be satisfied another way, if not then this is where one's morals and ethics come into play and the test of whether one will act or even die for them.

Did you learn this growing up in the Old West, Arising? You live in a heavily regulated state where you've not had to worry about it. What a load of horseshit you talk. One would think you're going to march out into the street at high noon to defend your version of ethics and morality against the gunslinger in black.

Arising_uk wrote:

Dalek Prime wrote:No, it's your problem. Keep doing it, and I'll quit answering you.

I'm crushed.

I felt like writing in that fashion. It's part of my humour.

I reply in my fashion as the words dictate.

There's nothing in non-existence, including value. Not my problem you can't follow an argument. And since you can't, and we've been through this already, I'll let you post unanswered in future, at least on this topic. I don't have the patience of the theists here.

But wasn't it you who says there is a 'God' else there's no meaning?

You have no argument other than to just let the human race die out because you can only see suffering. No idea why you wish to hasten our end when the universe will do it for us but I guess it's because you have nothing to value in it.

You're crushed? What about my feelings? Lol!

Sometimes I think you read the words, without comprehending the full thought.

Yes, either there is real meaning, or there is the stuff you've convinced yourself is meaningful.

No, I see joy too. But unlike you and Richard Dawkins, I don't pretend it's meaningful, and that there are ethereal babies just aching to gain existence, just so they can eat ice cream or get their new-found rocks off on the nearest girl and keep perpetuating the ice cream and the rocks enjoyment down through the ages.

But hey, I couldn't give a crap. Enjoy your ice cream. And your meaning. I believe there are at least 32 flavours of each at your local shop.

Oh, and yes Arising, the universe ended the dinosaurs, catastrophically. Would you not spare the future of mankind a catastrophic end, by philanthropically easing us out of existence, in a painless manner? See, that's where we differ. You don't care how humanity will end, because you won't be impacted. I, on the other hand, do, and would spare them the inevitable.

Arising_uk wrote:

Dalek Prime wrote: Question is, why is everyone so happy at births in either a meaningless universe, one with a potentiality for eternal damnation, or one with continual rebirth into Samsara, depending on your beliefs?

Neither, its because birth is a fraught process full of pain and possible death, so they are celebrating survival. They're also celebrating the miracle that is birth in a meaningless universe.

Okay, so you admit that "birth is a fraught process full of pain and possible death", yet you're okay with inflicting it on billions, for no reason or meaning? I should be laughing now. And what's this about the "miracle that is birth"? Since when did an atheist believe in miracles, or argue using theist terms?

But okay, let the celebrations of surviving birth begin, shall we?



Okay, that's enough, even for me.

It's so easy for you to brush suffering aside from where you sit, Arising. I would rather none come into this world, than one suffer for doing so, because I care.

This is the result of your preference in continuation. And it will never end until the species ends. So, what's your tipping point before you say enough, Arising? A world of hurt for everyone? Is even that enough for you, as long as it's not in your face? Is suffering a numbers game for you?

So, you tell me directly, Arising, because I'm truly sick of your rhetorical quibbling; after 6000 posts here on this forum, what real solution have you ever offered to end this? At least I have one, like it or not. So go piss yourself in your self-centered, pig-headed world, where all you can do is criticize others for giving a true fuck.

That's all you and everyone else ever do; sit around saying "That's life. I can't change a thing. It's too bad, but look at all the happy people in front of me. This is worth it."

Ah, to heck with it. I've never asked anyone not to procreate, myself excepted. All I've ever asked is for people to truly consider the real consequences of procreation and natalism, and you can't even do that without a fuss, instead, attacking me as some evil or barking mad antinatalist that doesn't give a shit about mankind. Well, okay then. "Woof woof!" Why should I care. It's your future, not mine. I'm going to go watch the beauty of a nighttime rainfall.

Dalek Prime wrote:Did you learn this growing up in the Old West, Arising? You live in a heavily regulated state where you've not had to worry about it. ...

What are you talking about? The world I describe is the world as it is, unless you think there is a 'God' out there who will be passing judgement on these 'good' and 'evil' people? And if there is then what point in worrying about them? You talk about the state as tho' it's not the consensus of individuals morals standing for what they believe in and lmao that you take this position as your anti-natalist vasectomy has been provided by this state whereas elsewhere you'd have had to rely upon abstention to fulfil your desire.

What a load of horseshit you talk. One would think you're going to march out into the street at high noon to defend your version of ethics and morality against the gunslinger in black.

Depends what this gunslinger is proposing?