Does The State Have Any Moral Obligations?

[Hjarloprillar]

Blaggard.

None who 'believe' will listen.
I could say ' voices are 'intuition'"
so well put in flic Prometheus interaction David/Shaw.
what is belief

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvXKN5Fz_OE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYNElueJj_w

The trick 'is not minding it hurts'

[Blaggard]

Prometheus was great in many ways but it sucked in many others it didn't really explore the whole alien prequel thing at all consistently, it seemed to make out that the human characters were just there to die to fill in the plot, it was not a good movie in terms of the Alien franchise at least. You're right though the David 8 think shows where AI was at that time, and later we see AIs such as Bishop who genuinely seem to have emotions, care and even act to help others in spite of the fact that they have no logical reason to do so. I don't think the ability to be sentient and have emotions relies on being a living breathing thing, it just relies on a set of codes that ultimately is the same as our set of codes, which we like to call DNA. If you can mimmick biological function exactly then what you have does not differentiate itself. I suspect AIs who can pass the Turing test will one day exist, I suspect they will exist to some extent some day sooner than we might think, and that they will one day do better than us on the Turning test:)

"Boris one day man will build a telescope so large or a microscope so powerful that he will see God himself, the first one to blink will lose his testicles."

Also from a film and the same actor who appeared in Lawrence of Arabia.

The trick is not to care when pain becomes intolerable. I like that. Although when mental anguish is intolerable rather than physical pain, the trick is to care only enough to not get burnt.

[Hjarloprillar]

Prometheus was great in many ways but it sucked in many others it didn't really explore the whole alien prequel thing at all consistently, it seemed to make out that the human characters were just there to die to fill in the plot, it was not a good movie in terms of the Alien franchise at least. You're right though the David 8 think shows where AI was at that time, and later we see AIs such as Bishop who genuinely seem to have emotions, care and even act to help others in spite of the fact that they have no logical reason to do so. I don't think the ability to be sentient and have emotions relies on being a living breathing thing, it just relies on a set of codes that ultimately is the same as our set of codes, which we like to call DNA. If you can mimmick biological function exactly then what you have does not differentiate itself. I suspect AIs who can pass the Turing test will one day exist, I suspect they will exist to some extent some day sooner than we might think, and that they will one day do better than us on the Turning test:)

B
Well said. Ai research forges ahead.. we want 'aliens on earth.'
because 'we can'
Why not?

True . As prequel it does poor job.. but it does tie in lv426
http://alienanthology.wikia.com/wiki/Acheron_(LV-426)

outside our 'local group' Avatar[pandora] being moon of gas giant in Centauri triplet.

humanity. be that a very small % is aware of local and non local stars.
i am one such. Born 100 years too early. born to pilot ships to stars

[bobevenson]

No one is divinely inspired Bob, God is just a figment of your imagination. Some think that they hear the words of a creator some don't, but they are all the same, the universe just is. There's no magic man in the sky and the quicker I think people get used to that the better off they will be in the long run. Not that I begrudge anyone faith, I believe in letting people believe what they want, if it helps salve their fears of being alone in a massive universe where you will die and rot, and your only contribution will be what you did and said to others to make them better people.

I am sure Bob that you think you have heard the words of your soul from a divine being, I am also sure Joan of Arc heard the same, and all the other other so called prophets heard voices telling them things. But at the end of the day they were just suffering from a mental illness that made them hear voices or see spiritual visions I posted a link about a documentary called God on the Brain, on one thread, of course no one read it, but even ardent atheists can have religious visions, if they suffer from temporal lobe epilepsy, God is encoded in our DNA, we have had spiritual beliefs since our ancestors walked the Earth, and now we have those as functions of how we think. Some people are more prone to spiritual feelings, and just are religious. Some need to have electrical stimulus applied to certain areas of the brain to experience spiritual feelings, and others don't ever have the feeling. All that says to me is like everything else there is a spectrum in genetics. You are no more religiously likely than any other person, but if you have a propensity to feel certain things dictated by your genetics, you will much more likely become religious, particularly when brought up and programmed by other religious people.

Anyway the world is more sophisticated now, if someone hears voices telling them of the revealed path of enlightenment, it usually just means they have some form of dysfunction. In the past people did not know about schizophrenia how it can cause you to hear voices that tell you things. So they believed these people. It's no doubt the reason why in The Bible it says both the old and the mad are closer to God. They're not closer to anything but their own pathological delusions or as in the old they are closer to death and more likely fearing it will have a greater likelihood to become religious.

Religion is an imaginative fiction, the same sort of fiction that made people explain mysteries in a way that was consistent with their lack of understanding, are the same sort of things mad people indulge in because they can't divorce themselves from the voices that are telling them things about reality. I'm not saying religious people are mad, just that it is a spectrum, religious fantasy starts at sane after all most people who are religious were brain washed by the environment they grew up in and that isn't mad it's just naive. But it does proceed to madness the more you believe in nothing more than imagination and the less you believe in what you can know.

Who are you, some self-appointed arbiter of philosophy and spirituality?

[Hjarloprillar]

No one is divinely inspired Bob, God is just a figment of your imagination. Some think that they hear the words of a creator some don't, but they are all the same, the universe just is. There's no magic man in the sky and the quicker I think people get used to that the better off they will be in the long run. Not that I begrudge anyone faith, I believe in letting people believe what they want, if it helps salve their fears of being alone in a massive universe where you will die and rot, and your only contribution will be what you did and said to others to make them better people.

I am sure Bob that you think you have heard the words of your soul from a divine being, I am also sure Joan of Arc heard the same, and all the other other so called prophets heard voices telling them things. But at the end of the day they were just suffering from a mental illness that made them hear voices or see spiritual visions I posted a link about a documentary called God on the Brain, on one thread, of course no one read it, but even ardent atheists can have religious visions, if they suffer from temporal lobe epilepsy, God is encoded in our DNA, we have had spiritual beliefs since our ancestors walked the Earth, and now we have those as functions of how we think. Some people are more prone to spiritual feelings, and just are religious. Some need to have electrical stimulus applied to certain areas of the brain to experience spiritual feelings, and others don't ever have the feeling. All that says to me is like everything else there is a spectrum in genetics. You are no more religiously likely than any other person, but if you have a propensity to feel certain things dictated by your genetics, you will much more likely become religious, particularly when brought up and programmed by other religious people.

Anyway the world is more sophisticated now, if someone hears voices telling them of the revealed path of enlightenment, it usually just means they have some form of dysfunction. In the past people did not know about schizophrenia how it can cause you to hear voices that tell you things. So they believed these people. It's no doubt the reason why in The Bible it says both the old and the mad are closer to God. They're not closer to anything but their own pathological delusions or as in the old they are closer to death and more likely fearing it will have a greater likelihood to become religious.

Religion is an imaginative fiction, the same sort of fiction that made people explain mysteries in a way that was consistent with their lack of understanding, are the same sort of things mad people indulge in because they can't divorce themselves from the voices that are telling them things about reality. I'm not saying religious people are mad, just that it is a spectrum, religious fantasy starts at sane after all most people who are religious were brain washed by the environment they grew up in and that isn't mad it's just naive. But it does proceed to madness the more you believe in nothing more than imagination and the less you believe in what you can know.

Who are you, some self-appointed arbiter of philosophy and spirituality?

I think he is sick and tired of the human propensity of bullshyte.
Sure Joan of arc did amazing things. But nothing 'god given' was required. Mysteries IS consistent with lack of understanding.
The lower the education. the greater the mysteries.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rh6qqsmxNs

and for carlin peeps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmJ2snsLxWw
8 minutes

[Blaggard]

No one is divinely inspired Bob, God is just a figment of your imagination. Some think that they hear the words of a creator some don't, but they are all the same, the universe just is. There's no magic man in the sky and the quicker I think people get used to that the better off they will be in the long run. Not that I begrudge anyone faith, I believe in letting people believe what they want, if it helps salve their fears of being alone in a massive universe where you will die and rot, and your only contribution will be what you did and said to others to make them better people.

I am sure Bob that you think you have heard the words of your soul from a divine being, I am also sure Joan of Arc heard the same, and all the other other so called prophets heard voices telling them things. But at the end of the day they were just suffering from a mental illness that made them hear voices or see spiritual visions I posted a link about a documentary called God on the Brain, on one thread, of course no one read it, but even ardent atheists can have religious visions, if they suffer from temporal lobe epilepsy, God is encoded in our DNA, we have had spiritual beliefs since our ancestors walked the Earth, and now we have those as functions of how we think. Some people are more prone to spiritual feelings, and just are religious. Some need to have electrical stimulus applied to certain areas of the brain to experience spiritual feelings, and others don't ever have the feeling. All that says to me is like everything else there is a spectrum in genetics. You are no more religiously likely than any other person, but if you have a propensity to feel certain things dictated by your genetics, you will much more likely become religious, particularly when brought up and programmed by other religious people.

Anyway the world is more sophisticated now, if someone hears voices telling them of the revealed path of enlightenment, it usually just means they have some form of dysfunction. In the past people did not know about schizophrenia how it can cause you to hear voices that tell you things. So they believed these people. It's no doubt the reason why in The Bible it says both the old and the mad are closer to God. They're not closer to anything but their own pathological delusions or as in the old they are closer to death and more likely fearing it will have a greater likelihood to become religious.

Religion is an imaginative fiction, the same sort of fiction that made people explain mysteries in a way that was consistent with their lack of understanding, are the same sort of things mad people indulge in because they can't divorce themselves from the voices that are telling them things about reality. I'm not saying religious people are mad, just that it is a spectrum, religious fantasy starts at sane after all most people who are religious were brain washed by the environment they grew up in and that isn't mad it's just naive. But it does proceed to madness the more you believe in nothing more than imagination and the less you believe in what you can know.

Who are you, some self-appointed arbiter of philosophy and spirituality?

Since you believe you are bob it would be far better to turn that question on yourself and ask who or what was it gave you the right to tell people that some fantastic bullshit you made up is real because your imagination says so. That is kinda the point, people have spent too long passing off complete wank that has no basis in reality on others, that somehow when someone asks for something based in reality, he is the bad guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rh6qqsmxNs

and for carlin peeps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmJ2snsLxWw
8 minutes

George Carlin, he knows who is stupid and who is just full of shit and who is just fucking nuts, and who is all 3.

[bobevenson]

George Carlin, he knows who is stupid and who is just full of shit and who is just fucking nuts, and who is all 3.

George Carlin doesn't know anything; he's dead.

[bobevenson]

Who are you, some self-appointed arbiter of philosophy and spirituality?

Since you believe you are bob it would be far better to turn that question on yourself and ask who or what was it gave you the right to tell people that some fantastic bullshit you made up is real because your imagination says so.

I'm not an arbiter of anything; like John on the isle of Patmos, I'm merely a prophet, a divinely-inspired transcriber.

[Blaggard]

Who are you, some self-appointed arbiter of philosophy and spirituality?

Since you believe you are bob it would be far better to turn that question on yourself and ask who or what was it gave you the right to tell people that some fantastic bullshit you made up is real because your imagination says so.

I'm not an arbiter of anything; like John on the isle of Patmos, I'm merely a prophet, a divinely-inspired transcriber.

No you're just a man, who has some crazy ideas, that have no basis in reality you like to pass off at others. It probably suits you well to imagine you have some sort of authority on something that is basically nuts, but it just means you have run too far through the house through the looking glass, into the wardrobe and through Narnia and out into La La land. Which is fine whatever made up imaginative arm waving you want to believe is fine by me, just don't expect anyone else to think your magical thinking is anything more than just made up nonsense.

“But I don’t want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can’t help that," said the Cat: "we’re all mad here. I’m mad. You’re mad."
"How do you know I’m mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, or you wouldn’t have come here.”
― Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland

[bobevenson]

You're just a man, who has some crazy ideas.

I'm not trying to put you on the spot or anything, but could you give me a single example of the crazy ideas you're talking about?

[Hjarloprillar]

“But I don’t want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can’t help that," said the Cat: "we’re all mad here. I’m mad. You’re mad."
"How do you know I’m mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, or you wouldn’t have come here.”
― Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland

The best thing about being 'mad', is my ability to spot the insane.
[~hjarloprillar]

Prill

[bobevenson]

The best thing about being 'mad', is my ability to spot the insane.

I've got to come to Blaggard's defense, I don't believe he's insane, at least from a legal standpoint.

[Hjarloprillar]

The best thing about being 'mad', is my ability to spot the insane.

I've got to come to Blaggard's defense, I don't believe he's insane, at least from a legal standpoint.

None here are insane.
I was not referring to blaggard.

Insane is in a cliche, 'solopsism' . Much more in the very smart but hopefully you get my meaning.

An example would be Hannibal Lector

[bobevenson]

The best thing about being 'mad', is my ability to spot the insane.

I've got to come to Blaggard's defense, I don't believe he's insane, at least from a legal standpoint.

I was not referring to Blaggard.

Oh, thank goodness, he's very sensitive, you know.

[Hjarloprillar]

"I don't believe he's insane, at least from a legal standpoint."

sniker. you 2 should kiss and make up.
I wondered in 'board preferences' about "friends and foes"
now i see.

"The colored glass lifted from eyes.
The worth of conflict brings no suprise.
For in waring for ideal, self and fate.
The pact of brotherhood we create."
[~hjarloprillar]